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IF I had it to do over, I would not enter into ESL teaching.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AND, I'm not positive you really need a "certificate" since your English is so superior to theirs.
Mt personal experience (China) is that standard of English isn't the issue. What's more important is the techniques and self-monitoring skills you are taught in even a basic course, which mine was.
Very reassuring in those first weeks when you are wondering if you've made a big mistake.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11439
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sammysez wrote:
I'm not positive you really need a "certificate" since your English is so superior to theirs.
...
My advice to anyone that just wants to travel would get a certificate not an Master's degree and safe yourself thousands of dollars on an Master's that qualifies you for a "part-time" teaching position at most colleges and community colleges in the U.S.

Awkwardly written. Regardless, a certificate (if you're referring to a TESOL qualification) mainly focuses on acquiring teaching skills. English fluency alone doesn't cut it.

and wrote:
Please, let us know where these "full-time" jobs are. I haven't found them, at least not in the U.S.

That's because you continue to focus on teaching adults, which limits you to part-time work. The TESOL market in the US has changed in terms of supply and demand. Venting about it is easy but nonproductive.

I have friends with TESOL-relevant MAs in my home state who earn a comfortable living full-time as curriculum developers and instructional designers in fields unrelated to TESOL. They pursued further education and marketed their transferable skills, which enabled them to transition from TESOL into their current professions.
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sammysez wrote:
bograt wrote:
Plenty of good adult teaching jobs around if you count university students as adults.


Please, let us know where these "full-time" jobs are. I haven't found them, at least not in the U.S.

And, yes, I count adults as students.


Unicorn here.

I have a full-time job with benefits teaching at a settlement organization. Steer the focus away from universities and consider nonprofit/settlement organizations that are funded in part by the government. Learn some basic Arabic and be willing to teach adults who struggle with the basic alphabet.
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sammysez



Joined: 20 Nov 2016
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds ideal actually and I have looked into that, trying to find employment.

Do you happen to know of any organizations specifically that are hiring to teach refugees etc??

Thanks
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11439
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sammysez wrote:
Do you happen to know of any organizations specifically that are hiring to teach refugees etc??

Santi84 is in Canada, which supports refugee resettlement.

Try your local school districts. I just forwarded a friend info on an opening for an ESL & GED Instructor, $52,348 - $62,816 a year.
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I am in Canada.

That being said, I have met plenty of teachers from the states who are doing similar things (for reference, primarily the NW region - Seattle). My students are not refugees, they are on a PR ("green card") and tag along with educated, working family members.

The best place to start is with the K-12 districts that often run cocurrent programs for adults-only (not necessarily continuing education but actual school programming), (location) settlement agencies, and (location) library services. I started in a library ESL circle/conversation program and branched out from there.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11439
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

santi84 wrote:
I started in a library ESL circle/conversation program and branched out from there.

Ditto that for the US. Other sources: job boards for non-profit openings and public libraries -- the latter focusing more and more on education. For example, my city library recently posted several full-time positions (paying around $50-55K/yr) working with the local refugee/immigrant population. These positions were education/training related and required TESOL experience.
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Mr. Kalgukshi
Mod Team
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Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 6591
Location: Need to know basis only.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=116964
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La Reve



Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 75
Location: Ici

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would I do it again, now? No.

Do I regret doing it back then, starting in 1984 for 15 years in Arabia and 10 in Asia? No, but I regret choosing South Korea over Japan.

Back then life was full of corruption, exploitation of teachers, no labor rights, irrational and lying supervisors as well as colleagues, sometimes lack of paid housing, and mostly inadequate teaching materials. These conditions have worsened. Additionally, disrespectful students and cellphones now control classrooms while wages remain the same as 20 years ago.

I made more money overseas than in the USA, often had free housing, full health insurance and yearly plane tickets home. Living overseas was a childhood dream made real. I enjoyed deciphering foreign cultures and world religions.

It was exotic to actually see ancient Egyptian temples and hieroglyphics, Babylonian statues, cuneiform clay tablets, Nabatean tombs and the Empty Quarter Desert. Visiting famous cities worldwide was astounding.

I didn’t enjoy Asian culture’s ‘obedience/slavery’ mentality. However, ancestor worship in Taiwan helped me connect Buddhist reincarnation to DNA: we all have had previous lives.

In the Gulf, I enjoyed the weather and people. I learned about Ramadan and its 28-day month of good behavior to establish healthy habits for the rest of the year. The Gulf’s history of poverty and reaction to wealth was incredible to experience from 1984 in Saudi Arabia, later in the UAE, and from 2000 to 2012 in Oman. Close relationships with an Emirati, then with an Omani family, made me feel accepted and explained nuances in Arabic culture.

In conclusion, teaching English overseas gave me more than I imagined it could. Its negatives, as dragonpiwo wrote, are also true.

Contributing to an American university teacher pension I had, I have retired in Portugal, avoiding Trump’s expensive America.
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3897
Location: Pittsburgh

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
Train to be a driver on the subway. Or a plumber. Or anything.

Accept that your prospects of travel will be limited to whet you can pay for out of your earnings at home. Go abroad on vacations to places like Benidorm or Tijuana. Forget any opportunities to immerse yourselves in the life and culture of foreign lands. Learn to be ordinary.

i am glad that I lived the way I did and made all the mistakes that i made. Sometimes I got it right ! errare humanum est. I know no others who have lived and worked in Germany, the Land of the Bemba, Saudi, Bulgaria and now I am seeing life out on the island of St Blane. "i did it my way" as that corny old crooner sang.

i appreciate that opportunities may not be so great as they were in my youth which coincided with a growth in demand for educated native speakres to teach English, often in exotic locales.


My perspective after having lived both lives as an ESL teacher and as a professional in the United States for the Federal government. I did my six years abroad and have since returned to work for the United States government. I will take teaching ESL any day over working for a secure pension in the United States. I still get out a lot. I purchased a ticket to go to the Ukraine on July 26, 2018. I am also hoping to summit Mount Aconcagua December 1-24 of this year.

The grass is not always greener on the other side. As a friend told me no job is secure. He ask me if that postal worker working in Charleston, South Carolina from the North lost his secure Postal job during the Civil War. Of course he did. At the end of the day no job is as secure as we think, thus it is better to live your dreams, there may be no tomorrow!


Last edited by JZer on Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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odanny



Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 1
Location: Il.

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to add that I love reading about all of your experiences over the years in your careers. Hope more of you continue to add your teaching experiences to this thread.
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worldtraveller



Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 20
Location: world

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 5:15 pm    Post subject: Yes, there are full-time jobs in the USA AND overseas Reply with quote

Yes, there are full-time jobs in ESL if working in the USA. Most likely, that will be in public schools.

I know at the community college level an ESL position had 300 applications from literally ALL over the world.
Same with ESL government jobs (usajobs.gov), but of course, it never hurts to apply. You never know.

And, as always, there are jobs overseas with varying amounts of income, which that seems to be changing, but Saudi Arabia, UAE and then China and Japan are still the holdouts for a decent salary (nothing like in the 70s and 80s where people were making close to $100,000 tax-free with housing etc.. I think most of that is over, but again, there are a few jobs still out there (usually requiring 3 years experience at the tertiary level with a Master's Degree and native English speaker).
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Yes, there are full-time jobs in the USA AND overseas Reply with quote

worldtraveller wrote:
Japan ... there are a few jobs still out there (usually requiring 3 years experience at the tertiary level with a Master's Degree [in language teaching, more often "PhD / Ed.D in language teaching preferred" and native English speaker).


Plus a minimum of three publications in language teaching (what "counts" as a publication varies from university to university. They score them based on their own criteria, which is not available to the public) and often at least intermediate Japanese speaking ability.

And inside connections.
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Vince



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 554
Location: U.S.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sammysez, what specific degree do you have?

I've felt the same regret about my degree in English and my years teaching EFL in Japan. The degree is valued in relatively few fields, and most of those fields have degrees that are more focused (advertising, communications, etc.). More often than not, holders of a BA in English feel a lot of pressure to get a masters for the sake of that professional focus. It's as if the BA in English becomes high school; the MA becomes the worthwhile, marketable degree; and high school becomes part of childhood. That's an expensive and time-consuming way to build a life. I found the TEFL experience to be very general when brought back to the US as a transferable skillset; it really isn't much more than an interesting collection of stories for lunchtime conversation for your first few days in the new job. Word to the wise, I did have several managers with hiring authority ask about my foreign language skills. If you're overseas, be sure to learn as much of the language as you can.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15328

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not "write off" the years I spent teaching in Africa, The Middle East and Europe, i look back and thank the Lord I had the opportunity to live and work in Germany, Saudi Arabia, Zambia, Nigeria and Bulgaria.
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