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bj80
Joined: 31 Mar 2017
Posts: 63
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 Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:54 am Post subject: Best Test of General English? |
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I know many tests are biased, or at least claim to be biased enough to get criticized.
I have heard arguments against the TOEFL, IELTS, ACT, SAT, GaoKao, IGCSE, A Level, etc.
Is there any that tests general, functional, everyday English?
I am guessing the IETLS?
I am more just curious than anything else, as whether there could be a curriculum that covered general, everyday use.
I know some of you bash my questions. I am just curious as to finding standards that most of us could go for, that are not just test prep. |
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currentaffairs
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I think that overall I like the Cambridge exams best. Students can choose their tier and go for it. Their grade is also permanent which is not the case with the IELTS or TOEFL tests. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Is there any that tests general, functional, everyday English?
I am guessing the IETLS? |
Hmmm. If this were a test.... |
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: Best Test of General English? |
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| bj80 wrote: |
I know many tests are biased, or at least claim to be biased enough to get criticized.
I have heard arguments against the TOEFL, IELTS, ACT, SAT, GaoKao, IGCSE, A Level, etc.
Is there any that tests general, functional, everyday English?
I am guessing the IETLS?
I am more just curious than anything else, as whether there could be a curriculum that covered general, everyday use.
I know some of you bash my questions. I am just curious as to finding standards that most of us could go for, that are not just test prep. |
Again, a question similar to, "How high is up?"
Are you testing general knowledge or proficiency?
These ARE different and different tests are designed with different purposes. There is no "generic", general test for all things.
IELTS as an example is a proficiency test that is mapped to the CEFR with a set of "Can Do" indicators.
SAT or the "A levels" tests on the other hand are testing general knowledge about the subject not the proficiency in the use of the language.
Let's determine your proper hat size by examining your shoe length.
. |
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Gulezar
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Best Test of General English? |
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| bj80 wrote: |
I know many tests are biased, or at least claim to be biased enough to get criticized.
I have heard arguments against the TOEFL, IELTS, ACT, SAT, GaoKao, IGCSE, A Level, etc.
Is there any that tests general, functional, everyday English?
I am guessing the IETLS?
I am more just curious than anything else, as whether there could be a curriculum that covered general, everyday use.
I know some of you bash my questions. I am just curious as to finding standards that most of us could go for, that are not just test prep. |
One thing about the IELTS is that there is an Academic Exam and a General Exam. The Speaking and Listening are the same for both exams.
The Writing has two tasks to be done in an hour, but these two tasks are different for the General Exam and the Academic Exam. The Writing for the General is usually a letter or email expressing a complaint or a problem with some suggestions for a resolution. The Academic module has a description of a diagram, table, graph, map, etc. The second tasks are different for each exam. Generally, I would say that the General Writing is targeting secretaries or "blue collar workers", whereas the Academic is targeting "white collar workers", the boss who must do a presentation or STUDENTS who must organize a project. However, that is a very general impression.
The Reading is more challenging on the Academic Exam and of a more "academic" nature.
As suggested, the exams all have various audiences. In the end, any curriculum that has a benchmark exam becomes "test prep". The trick is to convince the students that the exam evaluates their proficiency, and that they just need to improve their English through reading, listening and speaking, and using English as much as possible, and they will "pass the exam". |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| Bear in mind all of these exams and tests are marketed by organisations whose principal aim is to build their commercial empires AND MAKE MONEY ! |
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spanglish
Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 742
Location: working on that
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| As a former examiner, I am a big fan of the IELTS - love that it's a real, live human being testing you, as well as its robust approach to scoring. I think it is the best proficiency test out there. It's biggest weakness: human error. Good chance 2 examiners will give different scores on the same performance. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| spanglish wrote: |
| As a former examiner, I am a big fan of the IELTS - love that it's a real, live human being testing you, as well as its robust approach to scoring. I think it is the best proficiency test out there. It's biggest weakness: human error. Good chance 2 examiners will give different scores on the same performance. |
For that reason, the Cambridge tests are better. There are two examiners so you get an aggregate score, one of them is only concentrating on the speech so can focus more and there's a section where they interact with another non native speaker candidate, which mirrors the most common English speaking interaction nowadays. |
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jpvanderwerf2001
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 1117
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I was an IELTS examiner for years, and I think it's a pretty good test. I used to fly all over Siberia and give the face-to-face speaking tests and invigilate the rest of the exam. The same examiner cannot mark the speaking and writing sections. |
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Gulezar
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:40 am Post subject: IELTS reliability |
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| jpvanderwerf2001 wrote: |
| I was an IELTS examiner for years, and I think it's a pretty good test. I used to fly all over Siberia and give the face-to-face speaking tests and invigilate the rest of the exam. The same examiner cannot mark the speaking and writing sections. |
Also, if the Reading and/or Listening and the Writing and/or Speaking (both assessed subjectively with a rubric) scores are statistically too divergent, then those parts are assessed again by a different examiner. A candidate can challenge the scores if they feel that those subjectively marked sections are not correct. The candidate must pay for that and is reimbursed if the score must be changed.
Examiners are monitored and if their scoring is not standard to the rubric, they must do self-standardization and be reassessed again.
The validity of the IELTS is often questioned, but as a standard it is generally reliable. Candidates who retake the exam usually score within a half band range (4.5 to 5, 5.5 to 6, for example). If a candidate does the exam cold and then take an IELTS Strategy course, his score might shoot up a band or more. |
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MotherF
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W
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| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| currentaffairs wrote: |
| I think that overall I like the Cambridge exams best. Students can choose their tier and go for it. Their grade is also permanent which is not the case with the IELTS or TOEFL tests. |
Those are both drawbacks in my opinion. I studied Japanese 20 years ago, and haven't used it at all since, surely my level is no longer the same? I would hate to think someone would count on me knowing much of it now.
And two, if you are going to spend money on a test, better it be a range test like IELTS, that way you won't either fail, and wish you'd chosen a lower tier, or get a high pass and wonder if you should have taken the higher tier.
There is no one-size-fits-all best test, nor should there be. |
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currentaffairs
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828
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| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| MotherF wrote: |
| currentaffairs wrote: |
| I think that overall I like the Cambridge exams best. Students can choose their tier and go for it. Their grade is also permanent which is not the case with the IELTS or TOEFL tests. |
Those are both drawbacks in my opinion. I studied Japanese 20 years ago, and haven't used it at all since, surely my level is no longer the same? I would hate to think someone would count on me knowing much of it now.
And two, if you are going to spend money on a test, better it be a range test like IELTS, that way you won't either fail, and wish you'd chosen a lower tier, or get a high pass and wonder if you should have taken the higher tier.
There is no one-size-fits-all best test, nor should there be. |
I don't think it is particularly fair to ask people to continually fork out money in order to do another test.. It seems something of a con to me. I would also bet that many people use an 'outdated' IELTS test score and put it on their CV. Employers should look at the overall situation and assess everything whether it be test scores, experience, recognized qualifications, life abroad and so on.
I think a pre-intermediate student is far better off attempting the Cambridge PET exam than trying to do the IELTS exam. The IELTS vocabulary, long reading passages and somewhat obtuse subject matter are all barriers for such a student. I don't see a problem with solid intermediate students and above trying IELTS, though. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think it is particularly fair to ask people to continually fork out money in order to do another test.. It seems something of a con to me. I would also bet that many people use an 'outdated' IELTS test score and put it on their CV. Employers should look at the overall situation and assess everything whether it be test scores, experience, recognized qualifications, life abroad and so on.
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Possibly but IELTS is mostly used for immigration and study abroad and I'm pretty sure those places have systems in place to make sure the scores are current. Like the way universities have anti-plagiarism software. Otherwise there would be serious abuse. I think 2 years is fair enough as you can forget a lot in that time without any exposure and if you're going over to Canada/Australia to be a nurse, for example, that could have serious consequences. |
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Gulezar
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
| Possibly but IELTS is mostly used for immigration and study abroad and I'm pretty sure those places have systems in place to make sure the scores are current. Like the way universities have anti-plagiarism software. Otherwise there would be serious abuse. I think 2 years is fair enough as you can forget a lot in that time without any exposure and if you're going over to Canada/Australia to be a nurse, for example, that could have serious consequences. |
The IELTS Certificate would have the validity dates. Yes, an administrator can join an IELTS secure website where candidates' scores are authenticated. This is is very useful for scores which seem "fishy" or certificates that may have been photo-shopped. |
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