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University Salaries Increasing?
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thechangling



Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My turn then: Wuhan private college/university paid me 6500 RMB monthly first year 8000 second year for less than 14 then 16 periods weekly of 45 mins each.
My new job at a public college in Hunan will pay 6500 for 14 periods weekly. Usual benefits for both those jobs included free apartment, return airfares partially paid utilities.
My quals are M.SocSci and about 7 years ESL experience.
I enjoy a predominantly stress free college job but also do side work to bolster that income to around 9000-10,000 monthly.
It blows me away that some of you guys can earn 30,000 RMB a month but i guess you're pretty stressed out and busy to attain that. I prefer to work to live, not live to work these days but i'm not young anymore.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11353
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris33166 wrote:
With the new visa regulations, I've been hearing a lot of talk about universities having to increase salaries to attract enough teachers. I've heard this from 4-5 teachers in the city I'm teaching in (Hangzhou). However, recent job ads don't support what I've heard...

It's doubtful employers (in China and elsewhere) consider job seekers' challenges with visa regulations when determining salary and bennies. Navigating visa processes are generally thought of as the job candidate's pre-employment responsibility. In contrast, better qualifications usually net better pay/bennies. A person's salary generally increases throughout his/her career as their experience increases and/or they boost their credentials.

Jmbf wrote:
nimadecaomei wrote:
I believe the question was are salaries increasing. No one asked to post your pay.

No offence but surely the two are linked though? If a poster in a university position decides to post their pay, along with other relevant details, that's a useful data point and relevant to the thread topic. If enough posters in similar positions chip in, especially with notes about their current and past pay, then at least we can start to build up a picture using some relevant data. That in my mind is a bit more useful / solid information than vague "Yes I think uni salaries are on the increase" posts.

You're relying on 1) people being completely honest about what they earn, and 2) divulging supporting details which might compromise their identity on this public forum. Besides, China is a huge and very diverse country; costs of living vary, educational needs can/do change, contracts aren't one size fits all, etc.
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eihpos



Joined: 14 Dec 2008
Posts: 305

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a big difference between salary brackets at public/government universities and private universities too. I'm not sure if you can compare...
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Modernist



Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Posts: 72
Location: Routing

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It's doubtful employers (in China and elsewhere) consider job seekers' challenges with visa regulations when determining salary and bennies. Navigating visa processes are generally thought of as the job candidate's pre-employment responsibility.

I don't agree. The Chinese visa process is so ridiculous and ever-changing, from province to province and year to year, that to expect a foreigner to just figure it out and let them know when they get off the plane, is not realistic and the Chinese employers generally know it. China is not Korea or Japan. My school has a person here where one of her main responsibilities is guiding new hires through the visa system. Because the newer system has been choking the supply of would-be staff, salaries are likely to go up as low-paying schools in poor locations are less likely to get anyone at all.
Quote:
China is a huge and very diverse country; costs of living vary

I don't agree with this, either. Actually, for almost everything, the costs in most parts of China are remarkably consistent. The big exception is housing, IF you get your own and it's not provided by the school. But in terms of buying goods and services, I've found prices are the same. Utilities, food, hotels relative to quality, consumer goods, electronics, clothes, everything on Taobao. It's the same whether it's Beijing or Kunming. A sandwich at a Subway or a desk at Ikea is the same in Shenzhen or Wuhan. Even foreign foods, I went to a small foreign restaurant in Changsha, and then a foreign sports bar in the French Concession in Shanghai. Prices were basically the same. Shanghai just has a lot more foreign stuff available, as a temptation. But you can find most of it on Taobao too, if you want it and are willing to look for it.

Quote:
It blows me away that some of you guys can earn 30,000 RMB a month but i guess you're pretty stressed out and busy to attain that.

I'll admit, 30K a month for a Uni job is astounding. If it's just a standard ESL job with typical hours and responsibilities then he must have the best Uni job in the country. I would assume it's a supervisory role that requires some admin work, but no way to know unless he wants to post more details.

I don't come close to 30K but I make quite a bit more than you posted, at the current fake international school. I don't have an enormous amount of stress in the job and other than being in the building 730-430 every day, I don't have an enormous workload. 16 teaching hours, 40-minute classes. My utilities are fully paid, a nice change from the cheapskate prior Uni that nickel and dimed me every month on AC use in the summer and heating in the winter ('just wear your coat inside!' Screw that). I can manage a pretty good work to live system.
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Jmbf



Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 660

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bear wrote:
But you could be comparing apples and oranges. E.g. MA TESOL, DELTA, 20 years of experience etc. to a fresh graduate who has never taught before.


That's why I mentioned that salaries information is only useful when combined with other relevant details about the poster such as their job requirements, qualifications and experience.

The bear wrote:
But a bigger problem is that there's not enough people using Dave's to build a representative sample.


I agree with you here that this is a problem.

The bear wrote:
Job offers are a better way to assess the situation. There's thousands of them available online to view.


Job offers are one thing and can provide some insight. But as you know what's on offer and what people actually receive once they sign their contract can differ quite a lot, especially if a lot of negotiating is involved.
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coffeespoonman



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 510
Location: At my computer...

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think some of you are referring to my since-edited post, so let me clarify. Of the 30k, only 1500 is a direct bonus from my supervisory role. However, the fact that I was able to achieve that level was because of the different responsibilities that I have taken on over the years. The salary I was originally hired in at was probably around 23k.

This is another important issue that should probably be discussed as well. Not just "are entry level salaries increasing?" But also, "are employers willing to reward service?" In my experience, the answer is yes. But I imagine there's a big difference in attitude between Chinese public universities and (at least some) Sino-Western partnerships.
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Elicit



Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 225

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Such is the size of the market here that a teacher need only take a singular entry level paying job. After the first contract, if you’re not recognized for your service you only need walk down the road to find a better deal.

On the point of salaries increasing more generally, they most probably are which is in part thanks to the new work permit requirements. Enforcement of the new requirements would be better still for salaries.
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Dream_Seller2



Joined: 30 Dec 2017
Posts: 4
Location: the upside down

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy

Last edited by Dream_Seller2 on Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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twowheel



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 640

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Modernist wrote:
I don't agree with this, either. Actually, for almost everything, the costs in most parts of China are remarkably consistent. The big exception is housing, IF you get your own and it's not provided by the school. But in terms of buying goods and services, I've found prices are the same.


Modernist, I agree with you on this. I lived in Chengdu and am living in Beijing now and the prices for the day-to-day in both cities are pretty similar. Beijing doesn't have to be expensive if one is good at budgeting and has discipline in spending (which actually is the case in all locales, gotta be disciplined). I agree that the wild card is housing. I rented a very nice one-bedroom in Chengdu for 3,000RMB/month. That same monthly rental price isn't going to get me anything nice in Beijing.

Warm regards,
twowheel


Last edited by twowheel on Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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twowheel



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 640

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elicit wrote:
After the first contract, if you’re not recognized for your service you only need walk down the road to find a better deal.


Hear, hear! Agreed.

Warm regards,
twowheel
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RiverMystic



Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 1954

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As some have pointed out, there are two broad categories of university jobs. Your standard ESL job will net you a relatively low salary, maybe 6000-12000. Then there are the gigs with international collaboration programmes, which can net you very nice salaries. Coffeespoonman’s afforementioned salary is not out of possibility. I get that. In fact last semester I got an extra 6000 beyond that for taking on an extra class, 9 students, 3 hours a week.

Tax free. After accommodation and utilities taken out.

My Chinese wife was still complaining, saying my salary is too low. Rolling Eyes

But most importantly, I really love my job. I really like my students (mostly), and my colleagues are great. I just stay away from the trouble makers. The students seem to like me. I got fantastic ratings for the end of semester evaluations (conducted by my bosses, not me).

Yes, I do have to work. Probably much harder than the typical uni gig. But I get 20 weeks of paid vacation a year! What is there to complain about?

I have had to work hard to get here. Besides the hard slog of getting a PhD, I’ve often taken on extra responsibilities in my jobs. I just designed one curriculum (course) here, for example, for about 7 teachers. I had to lobby to do that, but eventually I landed the job. No extra money. But it makes me a more valued employee, gives me more experience and means I have an extra feather in my cap when I move on.
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Elicit



Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 225

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are also a third category (or sub-category of the international variety) which are the smaller joint venture programmes with universities like Sydney, Coventry etc.. These will pay 15k(ish). Expect same basic conditions like marking, 18hrs teaching but fully paid holidays.

A MA may be preferred but not having one may not necessarily rule one out. The biggest problem in getting one of these jobs is finding them. They must advertise but I have no idea where. Could try the western partners’ websites because they often have links to partnership institutions. I have only learnt about some of these smaller places through word of mouth though.
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wuliuchiba



Joined: 07 Jul 2013
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just going by jobs advertised on echinacities, it seems the going rate is 8500 - 12,000 for most universities, with airfare/housing/vacation pay thrown in (which has always been standard). I'm sure a higher rate can be negotiated, especially when schools start to panic due to the ridiculous new visa requirements scaring off newbies and driving away old hands. I saw one uni in Nanjing advertise 12-15K for 18 hours a week. My experience has mostly been in high schools where the pay is 12 - 18K as standard, but now that Unis seem to be paying a more livable wage I'm looking into the higher paying ones. A lot less stress, responsibility, and no office hours - the somewhat lower salary seems like a fair trade-off. Back when hardly any of the unis paid more than 8K and the standard was 5500 - 6500, I wouldn't give a uni gig a second glance. Anyone who works for those wages these days is selling himself way short.

So uni English teachers only have to do one or two lesson plans a week and teach the same class over to different students? Sounds way easier than at a high school where you have to do different lesson plans for different classes, and grade lots of homework just like a normal teacher back home.
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cormac



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 766
Location: Xi'an (XTU)

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's worth being careful about the advertisements on echinacities. The vast majority of advertisements are coming from recruiters/agents, and they're clickbaiting to get inquiries. I've applied to many of the advertisements on the site over the years, and quite often the salaries listed will not match what is actually being offered, or the recruiter withdraws the offer completely, and "recommends" a different school entirely.

The truth of the matter is that for most starting positions (newbie teachers) the baseline university salaries range from 5500 to 7000. Salary amounts that are at 7k or higher are typically in regions that find it difficult to get FTs, usually because of remoteness or pollution. Shanxi being a good example of this, with the issues of pollution from the coal mines, and universities offering around the 7k mark.

When it comes to the real money for university positions, it breaks down to two areas. Those that definitely require a PHD in an education area, or a Masters in a particular subject like economics. [then there are the positions which aren't advertised but the FT gets through his connections]

All the FTs I know who are making reasonable amounts (10k or higher) have been in their particular universities for longer than two years, and have negotiated salary increases over time.

I am highly skeptical of the claims of getting positions in a university with a BA, and initially getting higher than 8k. I've seen it happen to others, but they've brought something major with them in addition to their qualifications, like papers published or extensive professional experience in the subject they're teaching (and usually that being a technical field).

Oh, I'm sure there are Universities that will offer and provide 10k or more to a new teacher... but there will be something wrong with the institution, with teachers not renewing their contracts.
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wuliuchiba



Joined: 07 Jul 2013
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a newbie. I have several years' experience in China. But what you're saying about jobs offering salaries below what is advertised is not necessarily true. I have interviewed with several universities this past week.

One is in Kaifeng offering 12K for 16 hours. I've heard mostly negative things about living in Henan, that it's the backward sticks, but the pay sounds very good for a light workload.

A university in Fuzhou told me 12K for 24 hours. Heavy workload for a university but the location in College Town is good. And it's still less work than at a high school (considering that high school requires a lot of prep time and grading homework daily).

9.5K for Changzhou, in University Town. One of the wealthiest cities in Jiangsu, and a light workload of 16 hours.

10K for a uni in Nanjing (NUIST), 16 hours. A little bit out in the suburbs but there's a subway line now. 12-15K for a police academy closer to the center of Nanjing, 18 - 20 hours.

10K for a uni in Changsha, standard 16 hours. Out in the suburbs, though, and not close to the new subway line.

These are all universities I have had Skype or Wechat interviews with this past week. I have also interviewed with some high schools where the pay can be considerably higher - one offers 18-22K, another the range of 22-27K. But those are 8/9 to 5 jobs and the workload is easily twice as heavy as at a uni. This year I plan to branch out into some other non-teaching freelance opportunities (writing/editing English textbooks), so I'm looking for the lighter workload of a uni schedule.

I get shown offers from kindergartens and training centers all the time , but I absolutely do not want to work at those places. I don't like children and I don't like the adult training center hours of 1/2 to 9 plus weekends (not to mention the lack of real holidays). I came here to enjoy life, not spend all my time in a cubicle. I could just as easily do that back home for better pay. Most kindies and training centers offer around 15 to 20K.

The fact is that salaries are going up. I've been here 5 years and the offers are noticably higher than usual this year. The tightened regulations are starting to show a real effect on the market.
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