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Work Permit Enforcement after Tet

 
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H5N1



Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:02 am    Post subject: Work Permit Enforcement after Tet Reply with quote

After being in Vietnam for many years I know (and many of us know) that the Work Permit issue started in about 2006 and there have been periods where we were told to get a WP. Some of us did; others didn't.

Then the issue would go away for a couple of years and the return for a brief period, to go away again.

And obviously, some schools are required to hire and get WPs for their instructors.

I've worked and lived in Hanoi for years teaching and holding different management positions. I casually know some officials at DOLISA and Immigration.

Now we are entering another period of WP enforcement.

I don't believe in rumors or gossip. It's what DOLISA is saying.

I am also only referring to Hanoi and can't comment on other areas of VN.

DOLISA is pushing for Work Permits and has given notice to several schools. It's possibly not just about schools paying bribes to keep teachers who don't have or cannot get a WP this time.

There may be a culling.

People working on DN or DL Business Visa should start the process of getting a work permit. Some are being refused entry into VN because they are teaching on this visa. This visa is NOT a work visa.

If someone is teaching on a tourist visa he/she should be very wary.

A popular school in Hanoi that employs a lot of teachers, with a 3 letter acronym that starts with the 18th letter in the alphabet may see visits by the authorities after Tet.

If anyone has anything to add about this issue, please do so.
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RustyShackleford



Joined: 13 May 2013
Posts: 449

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll bet money that this is, in part, a backlash against the comments that one expat made this past weekend. Ironically, that jackass is far more, legally at least, integrated into Vietnam than anyone who'd get culled.
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Mattingly



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RustyShackleford wrote:
I'll bet money that this is, in part, a backlash against the comments that one expat made this past weekend. Ironically, that jackass is far more, legally at least, integrated into Vietnam than anyone who'd get culled.


Yes,

He has infuriated many locals and this story is in the VNese language and English language newspapers.

He was somewhat well-known before b/c he has a YT channel, has high level VNese language and is married.

But after his comments (insulting a national hero with a comment regarding anatomy) the large language school he was under contract for terminated him.

Language schools have a brand and competition. That don't want someone working for them who has a high negative profile with many students and parents.

This person also has been ordered to report this week to a govt agency for violating some law. He face a fine of about $4-5K USD if they want to fine him.

Another expat, also teaching, wrote nasty comments (IMO) regarding the celebrations after the VN team beat Qatar. Lots of angry reactions towards his comment on "book face." It was interpreted as an insult to the people and there were lots of reactions about "perceptions of foreigners" and they some (many?) think they are superior.

One newspaper is calling for him to be deported.

Locals have named the school where he works and posted a link to it.

Not one foreigner I know agrees with these two nutjobs blabbering away insulting the local people.

And BTW, my school recently told me: "here is a list of everything you need to do to get a work permit. Please do so ASAP."

Who knows.....
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RustyShackleford



Joined: 13 May 2013
Posts: 449

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Another expat, also teaching, wrote nasty comments (IMO) regarding the celebrations after the VN team beat Qatar. Lots of angry reactions towards his comment on "book face." It was interpreted as an insult to the people and there were lots of reactions about "perceptions of foreigners" and they some (many?) think they are superior.


Yeah, that guy I've run across his banter on a couple of other forums and I'm frankly glad he's getting some sort of comeuppance for his insufferable attitude. He really just was wanting to defecate all over some genuine good spirits this past weekend. For his sake, I hope his papers are well in order and it all works out for him.

The Youtube fellow was more ridiculous than anything, made even more so by all the Viets calling for his head afterwards.

I'm surprised you've been working here without a WP Mattingly. Is this still quite common these days? I've only ever worked with one so just assume others I deal with do, too.
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Mattingly



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RustyShackleford wrote:
Quote:
Another expat, also teaching, wrote nasty comments (IMO) regarding the celebrations after the VN team beat Qatar. Lots of angry reactions towards his comment on "book face." It was interpreted as an insult to the people and there were lots of reactions about "perceptions of foreigners" and they some (many?) think they are superior.


Yeah, that guy I've run across his banter on a couple of other forums and I'm frankly glad he's getting some sort of comeuppance for his insufferable attitude. He really just was wanting to defecate all over some genuine good spirits this past weekend. For his sake, I hope his papers are well in order and it all works out for him.


Yes, he's a miserable person. Probably not worth beans back in his home-country. I hope he gets tossed also.

Quote:
The Youtube fellow was more ridiculous than anything, made even more so by all the Viets calling for his head afterwards.


A loud-mouthed troll.

A seriously do not think he'll ever get work in Hanoi again. Not at a school nor any privates.

Quote:
I'm surprised you've been working here without a WP Mattingly. Is this still quite common these days? I've only ever worked with one so just assume others I deal with do, too.


I've had work permits in the past but when a new opportunity came or I wanted a change after being at one place for some time, I was back to square 0.

There are a few people in town now trying to jump through the WP - even with a private lawyer - who had WPs in past but now don't.

When you complete a contract or change jobs you're back to being WP-less.
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tellersquill



Joined: 08 Apr 2016
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its great news.

I wish we got rid of the illegal workers.

It would help keep wages high as well.
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2229
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://tuoitrenews.vn/news/society/20180126/vietnam-ministry-summons-us-man-for-offensive-social-media-rant/43829.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42869322
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tellersquill



Joined: 08 Apr 2016
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was non stop headline news for the last ten days here.

It was something of an eye opener to many of us English teachers.

The consensus amongst the expats is that he said a bad a joke, but the response has been overwhelmingly venomous.

It really is a true reminder that freedom of speech is not a global phenomenon.
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White Boy 55



Joined: 23 Dec 2016
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:14 pm    Post subject: I have experienced this before. Reply with quote

I lived in Korea for many years. One idiot on a work permit did something horrible in Cambodia. After the news blew up a whole new set of rules were put into place. EVERY teacher had to get an officail background check (huge hassle for Americans)...sealed transripts from your univeristy. As well as have your degree Aposstilled. All a huge hassle.

People were being denied work visas over young mistakes of minor offenses. I don't beleve things will ever get that extreme here. The big chains can just $$$$...but there will be more checks.

I have been told to have my work permit on hand and residence card ready. Not if, but when they come to check. Not sure I believe that 100%. But...cowboys beware. Sort something out soon because AFTER Tet they will be checking. Deportation seems unlikely...but $$$$ will certainly be demanded.
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H5N1



Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are 6 people that I know of (and I assume) more that have been stuck in limbo and denied entry back into VN (visa runs) because they were working on a Business Visa. Some had to wait days, and others weeks. They had to pay a "fine" to re-enter - on condition that they get their WP within 3 months or they are out of VN.

According to my immigration 'buddy'

After Tet some schools will be checked to see which instructors have a WP. The school will pay fines on regular visits for those working without an WP.

Some schools will not be checked (you know how connections are).

But apparently even the big school here will be checked with dad's connection, with many teachers and a name that starts with an "R" and ends with an "S" with a vowel in the middle (5th letter of the alphabet).


Some people will be denied re-entry into VN with mulitple Business visas and Tourist Visa stamps (runs) because that screams "I'm teaching illegally."

As usual, I don't think this will be enforced universally. It depends on the school one works at and those denied re-entry may be denied at random.

Also, many at DOLISA and Immigration think (perhaps correctly) that in the last 2 years WAY TOO MANY people have been coming to Vietnam to "teach" to enjoy the low-cost lifestyle. Maybe some have criminal records, others have no teaching docs or training (or real ones for that matter) and the authorities want to raise the bar to keep out the trash.

Is it possible?

I don't know.
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sigmoid



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1249

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This simple fact is that most well-qualified teachers are working in other countries where they can make more money and receive benefits such as paid holidays, bonuses, insurance, etc. including work permits and visas that are processed and paid for by the employers.

Until the schools improve the conditions for teachers, they'll be stuck with the same old leftovers. And, even those with minimal qualifications can easily choose to move to another country. So, if they "raise the bar to keep out the trash", who's going to still be around when the summer sessions start in June?

In addition, I haven't even touched upon the issue of quality of life, especially in the large cities. WAY TOO MANY people are coming to Vietnam to "teach", but how many of them will stay for more than 6 months?
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2229
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has the immigration crack-down begun yet? Razz
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Piscador



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:46 am    Post subject: WP crackdown Reply with quote

I just got my work permit, but there were a few extra hoops to jump through this time. There was a snag with my TRC but that came through yesterday.

Some teachers I know are having to pay extra "fees" for DN (business) visas, but I'm not sure of the long term ramifications yet.

This, by the way, is in central VN.
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sigmoid



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1249

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:44 am    Post subject: Schools are not taking care of this? Reply with quote

Quote:
I just got my work permit, but there were a few extra hoops to jump through this time. There was a snag with my TRC but that came through yesterday.

Some teachers I know are having to pay extra "fees" for DN (business) visas, but I'm not sure of the long term ramifications yet.


Just curious...

Did your employer provide you with any assistance with the paperwork and documentation?

Does your employer cover or compensate teachers, fully pr partially, for the costs associated with applying for the wp?
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Piscador



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sigmoid, I'm in a special category. My wife and I started the school last year, so I'm effectively my own boss.

I've been in Vietnam far longer than most teachers (nearly 2 decades) and have had a number of work permits, so I'm familiar with the routine. I needed a new health check, but because I've lived in the same ward for over 5 years the authorities accepted a clearance from the local police office. All the rest of my documents/qualifications are already stamped/authenticated/what-have-you.

With respect to teachers working for me, I cover all filing costs and fees but the teacher is responsible for obtaining and certifying his/her own documents. I've assisted with border runs but that's on a case-by-case basis.

[edited for clarity]
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