Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

On negotiating with your employer

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Qatar
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Hemlock32



Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:32 am    Post subject: On negotiating with your employer Reply with quote

Hi,

Another question. What do we westerners need to know about negotiating (anything) with our Qatari employers? What advice should we keep in mind if we need to negotiate? Has anyone done this before?

I've recently learned that with Middle Eastern cultures, saying no can be a difficult thing to do, I hear you have to do it multiple times and in multiple ways. I imagine there must be some hopscotch and acrobatics with negotiating too, right?

Shukran Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17641
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you have some super specialized skill or knowledge to offer that they are in desperate need of, you are unlikely to get anything from negotiating. Educational job offers are pretty much take it or leave it... since we TEFLers are a dime a dozen.

This is how it has always been... you can try, but don't expect to get anything.

VS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hemlock32



Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
Unless you have some super specialized skill or knowledge to offer that they are in desperate need of, you are unlikely to get anything from negotiating. Educational job offers are pretty much take it or leave it... since we TEFLers are a dime a dozen.

This is how it has always been... you can try, but don't expect to get anything.

VS


Let me put it this way. Are you suggesting that if you work with a school for five years you shouldn’t negotiate your contract terms each year or every couple of years?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17641
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always taught at universities. Raises were normally included in my 2-3 year contracts. If you were offered a renewal, it was still a take it or leave it. I never knew of any employers where one would or could negotiate.

VS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hemlock32



Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
I always taught at universities. Raises were normally included in my 2-3 year contracts. If you were offered a renewal, it was still a take it or leave it. I never knew of any employers where one would or could negotiate.

VS


You received a 2-3 year contract from the initial hire? Or after completing your first year you renegotiated a contract that was for two or three years?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11453
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was able to negotiate a higher salary at one ME college. The administration approached me about providing legal and business writing services to the college president in addition to teaching my regular courseload. This was a private college, so there was flexibility in terms of a negotiated salary.

The point is, I had a skill they wanted. So unless you have something to offer CCQ (other than a year of a completed teaching contract), don't count on successfully negotiating a higher wage. Something like a completed, relevant doctorate or high-level skills in eLearning or curriculum development might catch their interest. Also keep in mind that they also have the right to not renew a teacher's contract. It is what it is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hemlock32



Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
I was able to negotiate a higher salary at one ME college. The administration approached me about providing legal and business writing services to the college president in addition to teaching my regular courseload. This was a private college, so there was flexibility in terms of a negotiated salary.

The point is, I had a skill they wanted. So unless you have something to offer CCQ (other than a year of a completed teaching contract), don't count on successfully negotiating a higher wage. Something like a completed, relevant doctorate or high-level skills in eLearning or curriculum development might catch their interest. Also keep in mind that they also have the right to not renew a teacher's contract. It is what it is.


So, are you saying that Universities don't give raises to their faculty based on job-related performance?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17641
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No they don't. Most have a set pay scale. You start out on the scale based on your credentials (degree plus years of experience). The scale itself may or may not be available for your perusal. The minimal requirement was for an MA + X years of experience after the MA. When the contract is over, you are either offered a renewal ... still pinned to their scale ... or you are not renewed and move on.

In my 15+ years of teaching in the Middle East, I never had a one-year contract. It was either 2 or 3 years. (Oman, UAE, and Kuwait) I was always offered a renewal, but I didn't always accept it.

VS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11453
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hemlock32 wrote:
So, are you saying that Universities don't give raises to their faculty based on job-related performance?

How are you defining job-related performance that's worthy of an annual boost in pay? What do you have to offer that justifies a raise? Frankly, university English language teachers in our home countries aren't getting bonuses, automatic pay raises, or guaranteed full-time work solely because they met their requisite teaching responsibilities.

TEFL salaries in many countries worldwide have either been stagnant or declining over the past 5+ years. Plus, don't assume the GCC is paved in gold or that teaching foundation year English is quite lucrative. For Qatar, add the economic impact of the oil slump and the country's ongoing political conflict with some of its neighbors.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hemlock32



Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
Hemlock32 wrote:
So, are you saying that Universities don't give raises to their faculty based on job-related performance?

How are you defining job-related performance that's worthy of an annual boost in pay? What do you have to offer that justifies a raise? Frankly, university English language teachers in our home countries aren't getting bonuses, automatic pay raises, or guaranteed full-time work solely because they met their requisite teaching responsibilities.

TEFL salaries in many countries worldwide have either been stagnant or declining over the past 5+ years. Plus, don't assume the GCC is paved in gold or that teaching foundation year English is quite lucrative. For Qatar, add the economic impact of the oil slump and the country's ongoing political conflict with some of its neighbors.


Okay, first of all I didn't specify an annual bonus. I think people earn their stripes by putting in good work, demonstrating proven results, excitement about language, and good rapport with students, colleagues, the director, etc. Yes, I am all too aware of the petty wages we make as language teachers here in the US. I am an adjunct teacher now and this will be my last week. And I know what I can make in one year in the Mideast is what I would make in three years as an adjunct. That is a no-brainer. All I am saying is that I would assume that after five years in an institution hypothetically that person would be making more (which could mean many things) than having the same wage over the course of those five years.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11453
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hemlock32 wrote:
I think people earn their stripes by putting in good work, demonstrating proven results, excitement about language, and good rapport with students, colleagues, the director, etc.
....
All I am saying is that I would assume that after five years in an institution hypothetically that person would be making more (which could mean many things) than having the same wage over the course of those five years.

Putting in good work, demonstrating proven results, excitement about language, and good rapport, etc., are a given for any TEFL job. In other words, that's pretty much every employer's standard expectation of their faculty. That said, be realistic about your expectation of demonstrating proven results.

You initially asked about negotiating for more money. That assumes you either aren't given an automatic raise at contract renewal, or you're dissatisfied with whatever generic pay hike is given to all teachers. Rather than hypothesizing what could be, wait until your first day at CCQ to find out about salary increases, especially in light of Qatar's uncertain political and economic situation. That's a reasonable question to pose to HR during onboarding.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yorks Lad



Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 93
Location: England

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hemlock,

I'd echo what Nomad Soul and VS have said in that you can't expect to negotiate a pay rise at the end of the contract. It's pretty much take it or leave it. While being enthusiastic, developing a good rapport with students etc might impress a Westerner, your employers in the Gulf might not be particularly interested. Sometimes promotions (unannounced) go to the person you'd least expect to get it, inevitably because they know someone, get on well with the boss outside work etc. One 'boss' I had in Oman was abjectly useless and didn't even have a CELTA. Whilst this may sound bad, many teachers stay because despite this, the pay and conditions are much better than what we'd get at home.

Yorks Lad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hemlock32



Joined: 14 Apr 2017
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nomad and Yorks,

I think I'll wait to talk to other employees instead of openly asking about pay raises at CCQ. I think that may be a little face-threatening. In any case, I'm still very excited to get going on this new project despite the uncertainty of things in the Mideast. If the Saudis come rolling in, who knows, maybe they'll take me back to Jeddah.Laughing If not, this is by far the BEST job I have ever been offered in my life.

Another question: what is typically the procedure if you are asked to return and teach again? Do they tell you before you fly home or do they tell you over the break?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11453
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hemlock32 wrote:
Another question: what is typically the procedure if you are asked to return and teach again? Do they tell you before you fly home or do they tell you over the break?

A question to pose to HR or returning expats once you get there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Qatar All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China