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Anti-Semitism and Russia
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Veritas_Aequitas



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 88
Location: Jalisco, Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:40 pm    Post subject: Anti-Semitism and Russia Reply with quote

Okay, first of all this is not a question of whether or not anti-semitism exists in Russia. I know it does exist in an extreme case compared to most other countries in the world.

So my story begins as such: I have one Jewish parent, father, and a very typical Jewish surname. I know many Russian, and Ukrainian people here in the Milwaukee area, and they are all anti-semitic.

But here is the twist-I am completely okay with that. I could hang out with someone in the Nation of Islam as long as they didn't have a problem with me personally. So my question to the people that live abroad in Russia is: will I run into problems if I go to Russia because of my surname? My grandparents were from Russia, and I would love to go back to the old country.

Thanks in advance,

Andrew
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angstrom



Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I don't think you would have a problem with your surname. As a Jew from NY with a very Jewish surname, I have never had any problems after three years in Moscow. As long as you keep a low profile and don't advertise your jewishness, you should be ok. Problems only arise if you have a darker complexion. A lot of people who are dark or exotic looking can get into bloody confrontations. I hope that helps.
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bobs12



Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 310
Location: Saint Petersburg

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a lot depends on where you go. If you 'look' Jewish, expect at least possible hassle from police in big cities, and at worst to be murdered by skinheads, kind of like the lady said. Avoid industrial provinces, you don't need to be Jewish to be murdered there.

Take care.
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angstrom



Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

right, ditto whatever that bob guy said plus I now realize that I completely forgot to tell you that whenever you find yourself in any city beyond Moscow or St Pete, whatever you do, don't ever, ever, tell people you're a jew. I accidentally found myself in the company of men from Saratov, and they had nothing better to do than tell jewish jokes the whole f---- evening, so I kept a really really low profile and if it was any lower, I'd be buried alive. So, it's your call, man. Stick to Moscow or possibly St Pete and you'll a-ok. Good luck to you!
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Communist Smurf



Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 330
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This topic has come up a couple of times and I've already mentioned this. I'm half-asian, but when someone finds out I'm American, they no longer think of me as Asian. It's not the same in, for example, Egypt. While I was there, it was almost like I wasn't a "real" American because my skin wasn't white and some of them even liked to point that, subtly.

I believe Russians genuinely are interested in your nationality and will judge you by this. They will also assume what your nationality is by the color of your skin. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if they know you aren't a Jewish Russian, they won't treat you like Еврей.

I will suggest you don't be overly "Jewish," if I can say that. You shouldn't feel the need to defend your heritage if someone makes a joke. Don't align yourself with the Jews of Russia. If you do, you might be causing yourself some unnesessary drama. Don't start a crusade to cleanse Russia of anti-semetism. For example, no matter how many times I've warned Russians not to say нигр around Americans, they won't listen.

CS
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Veritas_Aequitas



Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 88
Location: Jalisco, Mexico

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses, guys. Luckily I am opposite of Jerry Seinfeld's uncle, the one that is completely paranoid about anti-semitism, as I know I would be emotionally destroyed in Russia. Like I said, I know many Russians in the States, and they are very nationalistic, and anti-semetic, but it seems more in principal. I don't think anyone is trying to bring back the pograms. I appreciate the repsonses, this makes Russia look that much more appealing. I'll post again if I have any more questions.

Regards,

veritas_aequitas
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canucktechie



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Moscow

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BKC has an ADOS who has a (Russian) Jewish name and looks Jewish too. Also some of the foreign teachers have Jewish names (as you can see from the website), and I never heard any complaints from them.

If you look Jewish you are a lot more likely to get into trouble because people think you are a Chechen. On the other hand people might think you are Armenian which is a good thing. Razz

Frankly you are more likely to get more anti-American than anti-Jewish sentiments from the students these days.
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bobs12



Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 310
Location: Saint Petersburg

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The company I work with is almost all-Jewish. A lot of our people have distinctly Jewish features but to the best of my knowledge they live peacefully, at least I've heard nothing in the year I've been working there and haven't yet seen anyone with evidence of having been in a scuffle.

That said, my first girlfriend in this country (Moscow, that cesspit to end all cesspits) turned out to be very anti-semitic, and she was an extremely intelligent and educated woman. I gathered from her that violence against Jews (and coloured/Asians) isn't just 'accepted', it's a part of daily life.

Racism and bigotry is as much a part of Russia as пельмени and тапочки. Thankfully the violently-outspoken are a minority, so not every Jew or black or Asian will fall victim to their prejudice. However, I doubt if they would say, "It's okay guys, this one's an American Jew, we can let him go." Being an American doesn't make you immune to anything in Russia, far least skinheads. Being an American Jew, they may just beat you twice as hard, although I have heard that their targets are not tourists but people trying to settle in Russia.

The main thing is to take all sensible precautions as any foreigner or local would. Use your common sense and keep your wits about you. Last year a family of southern people (Russian-speaking, I believe from a former Soviet state) was beaten to death outside the Hermitage in broad daylight.
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Trojan Horse



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 61
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good grief - beaten to death in broad daylight! By whom? Not the police I hope.

Last edited by Trojan Horse on Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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bobs12



Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 310
Location: Saint Petersburg

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a skinhead gang, I've forgotten the details but an internet search would find them, it was a huge scandal at the time.

I think this is the right article- I think I had my facts mixed up with another incident that happened outside the hermitage.

http://www.gazeta.ru/2004/02/10/oa_111636.shtml
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angstrom



Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trojan Horse,

I'm a Jew from New York, but as far as being freaked about spending a year in the US, I think the media makes it look a lot worse than it is. I'm sure England has its share of crime and gangs and all that stuff. And as I mentioned before to Veritas, being a Jew in Russia is not really not a big deal. Russians have other fish to fry, like killing businessmen and people of color, but if you don't fall into any of those categories, you'll be a-ok.
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zaneth



Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 545
Location: Between Russia and Germany

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a crackup!!!

OP's from America so they're used to dodging bullets and they pack a gun so they'll be OK. I really get a kick out of this image of America.

Thanks, I needed a chuckle.
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Castro



Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 57
Location: still Russia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:10 pm    Post subject: Anti-Semitism and Russia and USA and ... Reply with quote

Do not turn away, guys.
Sapienti sat.

Anti-Semitism (Western Countries).

1. “The national poll of 1,000 American adults conducted April 26 through May 6, 2002 found that 17% of Americans - or about 35 million adults - hold views about Jews that are "unquestionably anti-Semitic."
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4109_12.asp

2. More Than 1,500 Incidents Reported Across U.S. in 2003
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4464_12.htm

3. The 2004 results of those who hold anti-Semitic attitudes in the first group of five countries are: France – 25%, down from 35% in 2002; Germany – 36%, down from 37%; Belgium – 35%, down from 39%; Denmark – 16%, down from 21%; U.K. - 24%, up from 18%
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/4483_13.htm

Racism (Western Countries)

1. History
http://library.trinity.wa.edu.au/camp/head/discrim.htm
2. Present
http://www.sonic.net/~doretk/Issues/99-09%20FALL/racism.html
3. Braking News & anti-racist radio:
MONTREAL. Jewish Community Invests $3 million in Security [Ibid]
Suppressing the Black vote in Florida [Ibid]
http://www.antiracist.com

For DESSERT

http://alt.venus.co.uk/weed/current/usa.htm
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zaneth



Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 545
Location: Between Russia and Germany

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not anti-semitic, but I play one on TV.
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Trojan Horse



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 61
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I play one on tv"
Are you an actor Zaneth?
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