Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

anyone got a decent contract?
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Italy
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
caroline italy



Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:58 pm    Post subject: anyone got a decent contract? Reply with quote

I've been here (Italy) a long time now but I've never had or even heard of anyone else getting decent full-time, all-year-round contracts with sick-pay and holidays included. Am I living out in the hicks and should maybe think about moving to the big cities where it's all happening or is my experience everyone else's too? Seems that you have to move away from Italy to get good treatment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
roadrunner



Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 22
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am planning to move to Italy to teach in September, and this is very discouraging.

Is there no way of getting a stable contract there?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
caroline italy



Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2003 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to put you off. but Italy is, despite being a truly beautiful place, not the best country to teach in. I've been here for yonks and it's a struggle. The pay is particularly low here and the contracts pretty bad. Yuo might find that schools give you only a few hours and then get all narky if you dare teach for other schools too.

Not wanting to be too depressing, I can only suggest that you set up a job before coming over (internet and such).

All the best
C
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ESLteacher



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2003 5:00 am    Post subject: g Reply with quote

gg

Last edited by ESLteacher on Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:30 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12303
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2003 11:55 am    Post subject: Italy Reply with quote

Italy has a terrible reputation as a place to work. A while back a group of non-Italian "lettori" at universities took legal action to try to get a better deal, but I am not sure whet the outcome was.

Seems that it would be easier just to add Italy to the list of countries where you might as well forget getting a "real" job.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
shirley



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 45
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott, you're right about the Lettori strike in 93, I was one of the lettori on strike, we won that suit but for me all it meant was 6 months of unemployment while the strike was on and finding out my position had been cut when it ended. I won another position at a nearby university, displacing another lettrice who lost hers to me. After all that I never did see any money from the settlement, the State claimed it was broke. I left a year later, maybe others saw some money out of that. After all that hassle, I have to admit that I've done it again. I won a position at another Italian U. and I'm returning for more in June. I've spent two years teaching at a "grande ecole" in France and they, I must say, are worse than Italian universities. I'm still waiting to be paid for overtime I taught in 2001. In Italy I was always paid what they said they would pay me, although it was very little. In France they promise, but don't deliver. In France, unlike Italy, the rip-off is not related to nationality, they do it to the French too! I wouldn't strike Italy off your list of places to teach, just know that it isn't a place to save money. The lifestyle, however, is the best I've ever experienced. To me the pleasures of Italian lifestyle make the smaller salary worth it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12303
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2003 2:13 pm    Post subject: no Italia for me Reply with quote

Not an option for me. I have a wife and bairns to feed, clothe and educate.

Life is cruel !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
roadrunner



Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 22
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You advise setting up a job in advance. I intended to arrive in Italy in early September at my chosen destination, spend a few days getting to know the local ELT scene and then trying to secure a job. I figured that way I would have a better idea of what I was letting myself in for.

Would you advise against this?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
caroline italy



Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2003 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Roadrunner

You might be okay waiting till September but lots of schools have already made arrangements with teachers by then. This period (from now till June) is probably the best moment to make initial contacts for the Autumn. Remember also that some schools are still on semi-holiday in early September and you might have to wait some weeks for lessons to start properly.

Interesting to read about the lettori - I'd heard about it in connection with Perugia Uni I think, but no real details.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karenh



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to Italy in Sept to teach and am a bit worried now. I've spent the last 7 years here in Paris and it's true at the beginning it's tough, you have to go through the cowboys to get to a decent school. I also have a position at the uni and it's true they don't pay very often but they stipulate that you must have a main employer, that way they don't pay any national insuranc charges and can basically pay when they like! I was considering Rome or Bologna, does anyone have any tips? Where are you Caroline?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mada



Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3
Location: toronto,canada

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 1:26 pm    Post subject: Hello Reply with quote

I am another Tesol teacher hoping to get a teaching jobs in Rome or maybe not from what I read! Can anyone tell me what are the chances of making my dream of teaching in Rome, Italy a realty . I hear this scary stories about being promised positions and not getting what it is discussed! Can anyone advise me or tell me their experiences! A scared future teacher! Madalina
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
caroline italy



Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like I'm a real party-pooper - ruining everyone's dreams of Italy. Unfortunately, the reality of it is that is a splendid, beautiful country, but its economy is not like back home in GB (or in the USA, as I'm lead to believe). there are not many job opportunities for people in general over here, with the best positions all concentrated in the north. However, maybe Milan is not the sort of Italy most Brits or Americans dream about...the stunning areas like Tuscany, Umbria (the area I live in), the South, Sicily, etc. are less industrialised, there's less commerce and also -as far as English mother tongue people are concerned - there's more competition from other job-seekers. Maybe in other parts of the world you can just walk straight into a teaching job - here it's pretty tough, with some of the jobs having lower wages than you need to survive on. Personally, I'd be wary about just turning up in September unless I had a bit of money to tide me over.

I don't know exactly how much better other areas are - that's the reason for this posting - but I've been here for a long time and I haven't really heard of any good deals except perhaps University posts which are not easy to get.

I'm not saying give up - just be careful.

Best of luck!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12303
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:06 am    Post subject: harsh reality of efl life Reply with quote

Many newcomers to this world of EFL do not or will not see how difficult it is to get jobs in many parts of the world. In many places (eg Italy) if you get a job you can barely survive on the income.

The world of EFL is not wonderful. Real salaries are paid in some places : the Middle East and Japan and Korea. Elsewhere you will be living on pennies and eating peanuts.

Do not listen to they hypsters that tell you there are jobs everywhere.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
avahanian



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 1:12 am    Post subject: surviving in Italy Reply with quote

caroline italy wrote:
Maybe in other parts of the world you can just walk straight into a teaching job - here it's pretty tough, with some of the jobs having lower wages than you need to survive on. Personally, I'd be wary about just turning up in September unless I had a bit of money to tide me over.

Best of luck!


Hi Caroline,

No I don't believe you are a "party-pooper", but there are some points that people tend to overlook

We need to make a distinction here....first of all, it is NOT tough to find "A" job teaching English in Italy, Spain, or other such countries, and it is actually EASY if you are good at marketing your skills.

Of course if you are a backpacker or tourist then I hope you don't even consider doing this until you have the adequate qualifications and training (i.e. a TEFL/TESOL certificate, BA degree, and a desire to actually teach and not just waste everyone's time)

To illustrate my point, let's first look at the statistics.....I will use Milano as my example.

A city of nearly 1.5 million people, with loads of language schools and even more English teachers, right?

This then, adds more to the arguments that teaching in Italy is hopeless and a waste of time.

Wrong !

The reason some of you are disgruntled or know of people who are disgruntled, doesn't mean that there isn't teaching work in Italy. It simply means YOU were not able to find enough suitable work.

This usually results from, your marketing skills (or lack of), NOT from the claim that there isn't enough work.

Learning English is the trendiest thing now, and there are millions of people worldwide who want to learn.

In fact, regardless of what the language schools tell you, demand still surpasses supply. In each city there are so many potential clients, your only problem is that you have no way of reaching them....or do you?

How can anyone claim that in a city of 1.5 million people that there isn't enough work? It is there, you simply have to reach out to your potential market (which is, almost everyone)

The reason that some of you don't believe there is enough teaching work in Italy is because you attempt to find work like the typical job searcher:

"I shall go to the various language schools and leave my CV and hope and pray that they ring me back and give me some classes....ANY!!"

If this is your method of finding jobs, it's no wonder then, that you become disappointed with the results.

Finding TEFL work is a science (or rather, should be). It is nothing more than a numbers game, the more people you speak with or visit, the better your chances.

Now, this means that you do not ONLY visit the language schools (a dire mistake), but also do the following:

1. Post adverts (in Italian!!) in English language bookstores and bars and coffeeshops
2. Post adverts (in Italian!!) near the University area (if your city has a university)
3. Visit the English department of the university and speak with the professors (whose students just may want to have an English tutor). If there isn't an English department, then there at least will be classes in English or English literature

there are countless other ways of doing this, but I suppose that you have gotten the point: there has to be a scientific way of approaching your job search, and marketing is most important thing as far as survival.

If you do it like the typical job searcher, then don't be disappointed if you don't get the results you hoped for

Now, if you ask whether there are good work contracts, or if there is good legal teaching work (meaning not being paid in cash, "lavoro nero" as they say in Italy )this is another story.....

This is not to say that Italy is full of lucrative teaching contracts; it isn't.

BUT if what you are looking for is WORK, then it's there.....

Do it like the Italians and work for cash....teach private classes !!!

Yes this is illegal but I don't suppose that some of you (especially if you are non EU) are very concerned about this, you have in fact considered this for a long time and would not think twice about working for cash if the work was there

It is there....and if you take it, it's yours. if you don't, well then just add yourself to the long list of whinging and moaning disgruntled former EFL teachers who waste bandwidth and post their ridiculous and bitter "experiences" on this web site.

If you're interested (which I think that everyone is) in posting information that would be of some help to prospective teachers, then let's do it.

Let's not turn this into another Job Information Journal.

In other words, we should help each other succeed and inspire each other (even if it means posting a message such as this one) instead of just whinging (what good does that do anyway?)

cheers

Arin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
avahanian



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 1:20 am    Post subject: Re: Hello Reply with quote

Mada wrote:
I am another Tesol teacher hoping to get a teaching jobs in Rome or maybe not from what I read! Can anyone tell me what are the chances of making my dream of teaching in Rome, Italy a realty . I hear this scary stories about being promised positions and not getting what it is discussed! Can anyone advise me or tell me their experiences! A scared future teacher! Madalina


Hello Mada,

You can make it a reality if you want to. But it takes a lot of work....read my previous post regarding the only thing that really matters in the world of TEFL: MARKETING!

You should know that Rome is expensive (it's not as cheap as it used to be...it is a capital city after all!)

Make sure that you bring enough money with you. this means at least 5000 Euro

I know there are people who will argue with this (and in fact I'm going to post a question for those of you currently living in Italy and ask how much you would recommend someone to bring with them)

Therefore, the three most important things in my opinion:

1. Marketing
2. reserves of at least 5000 Euro
3. "thick skin" and the will to succeed
4. Learn some Italian before you arrive

If you don't have #2 or #4, you still have a chance....if you lack #1, chances are slim...if you lack #3, you can forget about it altogether

Speak with as many people as possible, and for god's sake try to avoid Job Information Journal (it is almost entirely rubbish and full of so many untruths that one wonders how those people can rest well at night)

If this truly is your dream job, then what is the worry? If teaching in Rome is your dream job, why would you want to do anything else?

cheers

Arin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Italy All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC