Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

anyone got a decent contract?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Italy
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
avahanian



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 1:22 am    Post subject: Re: no Italia for me Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
Not an option for me. I have a wife and bairns to feed, clothe and educate.

Life is cruel !


Then you should indicate this in every post and realise that most of the people posting messages here DO NOT have the same situation as you.

Most of them are in their 20s and have no spouse or children or house payments.

Therefore, it is different for you than for them, isn't it?

All I see is naysayers in this forum....where are the people who have actually succeeded (there are many more than you think) ?

cheers

Arin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Caroline



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 29
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 10:52 am    Post subject: Italian contracts Reply with quote

To "Caroline in Italy" (from another Caroline, who lives in Umbria!)

Like you, I don't know any ESL teachers in Italy who have a year-round contract. Our school does , however, have contracts that offer sick pay, holidays and the "tredicesima" bonus pay when your contract ends. The only - fairly big - negative is that our contracts are "fixed term", meaning they start in October and end in June or July. So, we aren't paid anything over the months that the school is closed.

I agree with others that with persistance you can break even, or maybe even save a little money, in Italy. It definitely helps to have a European Union passport, though. Without one it is difficult to get a legal contract.

As other posters have said, it's fairly easy to supplement your pay with private lessons "in nero".

Caroline
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mada



Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3
Location: toronto,canada

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 2:11 pm    Post subject: Hello Arin Reply with quote

Thank you very much for your positive feed back and advice!It is true, Marketing for a job in key in finding what I am looking for! My situation is a bit different as I have a home and my boyfriend's support while I am looking for a job in Rome! He has been there for 3 years so I am lucky!The only thing that worries me is all this stories that I hear about schools scaming teacher, not paying them or when they get there after arranging with a contract, the director will say "WHO ARE YOU?", acting like they never made any arrangements. But it is true I have to listen to the positive and forget the negative things people say!I honestly believe in the long run, the ball is in my corner and it is a matter of how I run with it! I will like to hear from you more, whenever you have time!
Thank you again! Mada
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guest






PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the choice between having a contract or teaching freelance and so able to take on private students, which is the better option? Is it just swings and roundabouts or do people still teach on the side if they have a contract?
Back to top
roadrunner



Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 22
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice.

I completely agree with your comments about approaching the job hunt with imagination and trying, and using alternative methods and marketing oneself to acquire students and earn a living.

But would this necessitate delaying job hunting unti lone arrives in Italy, or should one start as soon as possible?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Mada



Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3
Location: toronto,canada

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, I would be carefull to teach private students if you have no visa in Italy.I have heard that they are very strict with the laws!Our teacher was telling us that people got deported! But, hey good idea, more money and cash! Good luck! Mada
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guest






PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies for my very fuzzy question, probably reflecting the fact that I don't completely understand the situation myself.

I hold an EU passport so I don't need a visa to work in an EU country. I have just applied to a handful of schools for the autumn term, one of which has sent me a questionaire and one of the questions is

Quote:
WOULD YOU PREFER A FIXED CONTRACT WHICH WOULDN’T ALLOW YOU TO DO PRIVATE LESSONS OR A FREELANCING CONTRACT?


From this I assume that it's possible to work freelance for a school at the same time as taking private students - if you have not signed a fixed contract.

So my question is would I be burning my bridges by signing a fixed contract or is this in fact just a trick question?
Back to top
shirley



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 45
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2003 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katy, Glad you clarified that. You would definitely want to take the fixed contract, otherwise you could find yourself not working one week or month and not paid, especially December and months when there are many holidays. You will also not be paid if you are ill. With a fixed contract they will pay your social security contributions so you can have medical care and you will have a guarenteed monthly salary, sick days,etc. Of course you would still do private lessons, you just have to be discreet about it, not take private students from your school and make sure no one from the school knows you're doing it. Everyone has that clause in the their contract but if you follow it, you can't live on the salary. Fixed contracts are difficult to get, congratulations on finding one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
avahanian



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2003 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: Hello Arin Reply with quote

Mada wrote:
Thank you very much for your positive feed back and advice!It is true, Marketing for a job in key in finding what I am looking for! My situation is a bit different as I have a home and my boyfriend's support while I am looking for a job in Rome! He has been there for 3 years so I am lucky!The only thing that worries me is all this stories that I hear about schools scaming teacher, not paying them or when they get there after arranging with a contract, the director will say "WHO ARE YOU?", acting like they never made any arrangements. But it is true I have to listen to the positive and forget the negative things people say!I honestly believe in the long run, the ball is in my corner and it is a matter of how I run with it! I will like to hear from you more, whenever you have time!
Thank you again! Mada


Hi Mada,

You have a considerable advantage over most of the teachers going to Italy - you have a place to stay and financial support.

In my opinion you won't have many problems....in fact you have the biggest problems already solved (apart from being Canadian, which makes it nearly impossible to get legal work)

Many of the stories you hear are in fact true - but they are totally emotional and not very rational

What we need here are rational stories that analyse both sides of the situation. Of course it is impossible to be completely objective, but it does not help anyone to just talk about only the positives or only the negatives.

My advice is to listen to BOTH the positive and the negative and then make a decision for yourself

But the decision should be based on logical conclusions, not on irrational and disgruntled comments from people who didn't try hard enough and now are ruining it for everyone else with their "toxic" words....these people are nothing more than "dream killers" and I would suggest you not give much credibility to their statements.

Instead speak with the success stories...many of whom are posting messages in this very forum

cheers

Arin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
avahanian



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2003 7:15 am    Post subject: teaching in Italy Reply with quote

roadrunner wrote:
Thanks for the advice.

I completely agree with your comments about approaching the job hunt with imagination and trying, and using alternative methods and marketing oneself to acquire students and earn a living.

But would this necessitate delaying job hunting unti lone arrives in Italy, or should one start as soon as possible?



To be quite honest, it is very rare indeed to find a job whilst still in the UK or the USA or Canada.....why would schools hire someone not living in Italy when they have hordes of teachers in Italy looking for work?

That being said, you can still do some important work before arriving.

First, compile a list of the language schools in your city of interest (visit the online yellow pages, called "Pagine Gialle")

Then get yourself a map of the city and note the locations of the schools (this is difficult to do, however, if you're going to a city like Roma or Milano....they are huge!)

Then try to visit 4 or 5 schools a day and speak with the directors....you can't go wrong with this method. Numbers = success

but in my opinion, before any of this, you should find a flat or a flatshare.....having a place to sleep is more important than having a job (at least in the beginning) Smile

if you're a teacher then most likely you won't be able to afford your own flat....a flatshare would be more realistic (this however is another story....)

But I am glad that you've grasped the point of my previous message.....with mediocre marketing and effort, how can one expect to achieve good results?

as common-sense as this sounds, many teachers and would-be teachers have no method when it comes to finding work. their method is more like " having faith"

better odds then, to pray to God or Allah for finding a job....the current methods are about as useful as that

better yet, why not ask the Italians how hard they have to try, to find good work?

this is the bottom line - this is not a world for the meek, sitting around won't get you anywhere, and neither will faith when it comes to job searching. Getting kicked in the face is to be expected....you should expect it, welcome it, and then overcome it.

If you are not ready to do this, or don't want to do this....how about joining the disgruntled lot over at the job information journal:

"yes...I used to be an English teacher....it was so difficult! They expected you to know how to teach and to be qualified! Even worse is the fact that you might have to visit several schools and speak with the director....and convince them that you are a good teacher for their school...how awful indeed!"

perhaps some of those disgruntled message-posters should read Friedrich Nietzsche....they could all use a bit of inspiration don't you think Smile

cheers

Arin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guest






PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2003 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Shirley. I haven't been offered the job yet as I have to fill out the questionaire before they interview me. It seems a lot clearer now though. Thanks again.
Back to top
roadrunner



Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 22
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2003 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks avahanian.

I intended to do broadly as you suggested, although I am considering staying in a youth hostel until I actually have work in a particular locality, just in case nothing works out.

The problem I have is locating a destination. I'm not too bothered where, so long as it is a medium sized town and not to overpowering (so "no" to Rome, Milan etc).

My dilema is North or South - the former is more costly but may have better opportunities for teaching, the latter is cheaper but may have correspondingly less opportunities. A tricky dilema.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
caroline italy



Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Arin

First of all I want to thank you so much for having dedicated so much time to such a long reply. I would however like to point out a couple of things.

First of all, I am not a back-packer but am a 42 year-old woman who has been permanently resident in Italy for twenty years. I do not live in a big city but a rural area in the centre. I have no desire or even the means of moving to Milan since I have a son who would refuse point blank to be dragged away from the rest of his family, friends and environment.

I read your analysis of my problems with interest, but - please excuse me if I have to contradict you - since I'm probably a bit more aware of my life/career/personality than you are - I feel obliged to defend myself. I don't think I do a bad job of marketing myself, in that, of all the people I know in this very non-industrial area, I've probably got the most work (by the way, I actually worked in marketing for 7 years).

I apologise for have "whinged" in my previous posts but I was unaware that postings of a negative nature were not allowed. My inital posting was simply to enquire which schools/institutes were giving decent contracts.

One last thing, Arin, I am curious to know how your rather over-bearing manner works in the classroom. Quite frankly, you would alienate most of the students I teach.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
caroline italy



Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Caroline in Umbria

Thanks for your posting. It was reassuring to know that at least somewhere people are getting sick pay and holidays even!! I'm not so far from you - in a really beautiful area, but not the best as far as commerce and industry are concerned (and as a reflex, all service industries are penalised).

My main objection to ESL teaching in Italy is this second class contractual treatment we get. All other categories of workers seem better protected. It's as if the general assumption is that it's not a real job - something to play at for a couple of years until you decide what you really want to do.

In reality, most of my colleagues in the various schools and institutions I teach in are not post-graduates having a year or two out, but are decidedly grown-up people who have settled in the area and have, therefore, families (bairns to you, Scot47), houses, etc.

What ideally is needed is a national contract - like all other sectors under the sun. I wonder how you could go about getting such a thing. A trade union?? We may be an ill-treated category, but we must be pretty numerous here in Italy. Having to battle it out all alone over and over again (been here CENTURIES!!!) gets pretty tiring in the end.

All the best

Caroline Italy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
caroline italy



Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Scot47

Just a couple of lines of solidarity. I saw you got told off for not having come clean about your age and family status.

Although, now that I come to think of it, maybe Arin is right...

Confess all at the beginning of every posting - age, number of kids, mortage, star sign, shoe size. Come out of the closet - get it off your chest!

Maybe Dave could invent some sort of alarm which goes off when people over 30 participate in a forum...

Funnily enough, most of the people I know who do this job are definitely NOT in their twenties...

Yours in old age,

Caroline Italy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Italy All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC