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Jakarta
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Potters



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 10:31 am    Post subject: Jakarta Reply with quote

Still a good idea to come out and teach? Opinions please?
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Chester



Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 383
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:25 am    Post subject: what? Reply with quote

man. are you NUTS or stupid
for goodness sake, do you read the newspaper?
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Winmar



Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 125
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd still go to Indonesia, but would try a different city...
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ls650



Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering that more people probably died yesterday in traffic accidents in Indonesia than in the bombing, statistics say you are safe... but I'd definitely give it some thought.

Personally I didn't like Jakarta anyhow, so IMHO I'd recommend you look for teaching work in another location.
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drgonzo



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know... I can understand the feelings of you guys that are there now, as I have lived in JKT through many bombings before -- last year there were something like 8 bombings there through-out the year.
However, I still think the odds of getting blown up are quite slim.
I, for one, will come back to JKT, and I am not at all afraid.
There are worse places to be then JKT... if you are that afraid of bombs and terrorists you could teach up in Nunavut with the Inuit... slim chance of getting in trouble there.
Sorry to down-play the current event, but these terrorist events can happen anywhere... don't change your life much or be afraid of it. We all have to die of something.
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phis



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with drgonzo, the loss of life is appalling, but it is necessary to keep things in perspective. When I lived in Madrid, I avoided being killed or wounded in a bomb explosion because one of my students had kept me talking for a few minutes and I missed the bus that I habitually took each morning. That bus was caught in a car bomb explosion at the next bus stop.

I was lucky, other people weren't. Did I immediately leave Spain? No, I didn't. Did I refuse to return to my class in the company located near the bomb explosion? No, I didn't. Reason: the chances of a bomb being placed in the same location twice is extremely remote. In fact, it was probably the safest area in Madrid at that time. Think of all the police crawling over the place for a long time afterwards!

And the chances of you being in the location of a bomb explosion? As drgonzo said, the chances of you being killed in a bomb explosion are slim, and as Is650 inferred, you are more likely to be killed in a car accident.

I'm not trying to underplay this. Obviously Jakarta is going to be the focal point of terrorist activity because it is the capital city of Indonesia, and it is wise to consider this when you are thinking about working in Indonesia. Having said that, I have to question your 'numbers' drgonzo. The national and international press only talk about the Marriot bombing and this latest one. Were the others not reported because they didn't involve 'foreign nationals'? What and where were the other six bombings? Who was involved? Were people killed or injured? I deplore the international media's attitude that it is only 'deplorable and newsworthy' if foreign nationals are involved.

Bearing in mind my comments about Madrid (capital city of Spain), where bombings by ETA are much more frequent than in Indonesia, and Jakarta (capital city of Indonesia), where bombings are more likely to occur, is it safe to come and work in Indonesia?

Indonesia is a vast country with thousands of islands. Terrorist want to target places with a high percentage of expats or foreign visitors, to draw the attention of the international press. (hence, the attack in Bali). The further away from the centre you are, and the fewer foreigners there are, the less the chances of being targetted are. This isn't an exact science and there are no guarantees that your location won't be the target of the next attack. But even if this is so, the possibility of you being in the exact place at the exact time of the attack are very remote. You probably have the same chances of winning the lottery, albeit with a more negative outcome!

Wow! I didn't mean to say all that, but I'm glad I did. Any of you who know me, will know that I love this country. I have been here from two days after the world trade centre horror until the present day, and have lived through all the national and international political machinations, without ever feeling that my life was in enough danger that I had to 'flee'.

98% of the Indonesian population of whatever religious persuasion, Islam, Buddhist, Christian etc., are 'moderates' concerned only with getting on with their lives and looking after their family and friends, and following their chosen religion. They do not give way to the 2% of extremists who unfortunately take centre stage in the international media.

Okay, I am going to stop here, or I will go on for ever. And don't you just hate those never-ending posts!
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Chester



Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 383
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:30 am    Post subject: nuts Reply with quote

my cousin is a mining engineer. he was offered 500,000 pounds per year to work in baghdad. he declined. you want to work for $10 US per hour in Jakarta? you must be nuts.
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phis



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but Chester I'm not sure what that has to do with the present topic, which is: Is coming to Indonesia still a good idea in view of the recent bombing? Taking into account the possible future dangers, and bearing in mind what your possible destination in Indonesia may be, I still think it is.

Money isn't the issue here. Putting yourself in a situation of great danger for any amount of money would be an extremely stupid thing to do. However, we are talking here about the relative danger of working in Indonesia. I still think, relatively speaking, that Indonesia is safer that many other countries in the world. Jakarta will probably be the safest place in Indonesia during the next few weeks because of the high security alert. But obviously that will not last, and you will have to consider the fact of it being the 'capital city' when you are deciding whether to work there or not.

Before 9/11 the people of New York must have thought they lived in one of the safest cities in the world with respect to international terrorism. A few people might have moved out of New York since then, but the vast majority will have taken things in their stride and decided to stay. And I bet that a huge number of 'foreigners' are still voluntarily moving to the city to work.

You are obviously very traumatized by what has happened and should maybe try to negotiate your way out of your present contract and get out of Jakarta. But I still think that, taking into account the whole world situation at the moment, Indonesia is still a relatively safe bet.
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drgonzo



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chester, I will make it simple as I see it.
Live where you are the happiest in your life.
If you die because you live there, so be it... you have to die of something.
Don't be afraid of life, be afraid of how much you do not do being afraid during that life.
Gonzo
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ls650



Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phis wrote:
98% of the Indonesian population of whatever religious persuasion, Islam, Buddhist, Christian etc., are 'moderates' concerned only with getting on with their lives and looking after their family and friends, and following their chosen religion.


I think the same is true of ANY population.
Life is hard enough - why does that radical 2% need to make life even harder for the rest of us? Sad
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KCA420



Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edit

Last edited by KCA420 on Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Chester



Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 383
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:39 am    Post subject: phis Reply with quote

gee man, i thought the topic was...is it a good idea to come to Jakarta?
I am not under a contract. I work independantly. I have commitments here. I sure as hell wouldnt come here to earn ten dollars an hour. My opinions are shared by my wife and her family (all of whome are Indonesian). Its not a real safe place. Teach in Japan, taiwan or Korea, or Thailand (not in the south).
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phis



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KCA420, I wasn't arguing that bombings aren't taking place here in Indonesia. I just couldn't recall hearing about '8 in Jakarta during the past year'. And I'm not saying that they didn't take place, just that I don't recall them being reported in the media (or being commented on by anyone here in Medan). My criticism is against the politicians and the international media, who don't seem to think it's important unless people from their own country are killed or wounded. Isn't the loss of anyone's life through terrorism important, irrespective of their nationality?

However, taking the years 2000 - 2004, and including other places outside of Jakarta, I do remember most of the bombings you mention, and as far as I am concerned they are a 100% too many! But taking into account the vastness of Indonesia, I still feel that it is safer than many othe countries, especially if you are not based in the capital city or in an area where there are a large number of foreign visitors.

Please note that I never said it was 'SAFE' to live and work here. I inferred by my comments that relatively speaking it was safer than many other countries. I think that's what the OP was asking, wasn't it?

Is650, I agree that 2% is too much. But what do we do about that 2%? All I know is that giving in to the fear they are trying to instill will not resolve the problem. I don't advocate anyone putting themselves in a situation of danger just to prove a point, but I personally am going to do what the majority of the remaining 98% do - that is get on with my life in a place I want to be. If I am unfortunate enough to be in the vicinity of a bomb when it explodes, then so be it. But I am not going anywhere just because a bunch of 'loonies' want to prove a point!
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gugelhupf



Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 575
Location: Jabotabek

PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do NOT believe in courting danger when I don't have to but I'm damned if I'm going to be pushed around the world by the likes of JI (or George W!). That's easy for me to say, I suppose, because I'm single with no dependants and I've had a full and varied 41 years of life so far with no real regrets.

It's up to the individual to make his/her own informed choice and I wouldn't criticise anyone for cancelling travel plans to Indonesia if that is what they feel is right for them. Personally, though, I wouldn't.
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drgonzo



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phis the numbers I got, 8 bombings in 2003, came from an article I read in the jkt post I believe at or about new years, 2004. This inculded the bombs that injured no one such as the pipe-bomb at the UN building, and the bomb at the airport that did not kill anyone, but injured a few.
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