Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

My quest for Romanian citizenship
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13, 14  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Romania
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

josephf wrote:
I don't see why that should make a difference. Your mother changed her name as a child when she naturalized, and you changed your name as an adult when getting married. Nevertheless you both changed it outside Romania, and needed to get your foreign (meaning non-Romanian) name change recognized in Romania. Your mother got her name change recognized in Romania about 5 years ago (shortly after you started this thread) and did so without ever obtaining a Romanian passport.

All the Romanian government cares is that the name was changed outside Romania. How or when it was legally changed outside Romania would make no difference insofar as registering the name change with Romania. So I don't see why you shouldn't be able to have Romania register your name change any differently than your mother did.


Yeah, you and me both. I completely agree without, however, the RO govt doesn't. BUT, I believe that they HAD to change her stuff since she was a Romanian since birth. Anyways, the important thing is that she was STILL denied a marriage cert and passprot.

The difference would be that she already had a Romanian passport. SUre, it wasn't valid, but anyways her application for a Romanian passport AND Romanian marriage cert was denied based on.
1. She didn't speak Romanian.
2. She hadn't lived there in decades.
3. She didn't have a valid marriage cert and couldn't get a passport.
4. SHe didn't have a valid passport and couldn't get a married vert.

It's NOT logical, I know. BUt that's the whole point. The system isn't logical.


Last edited by naturegirl321 on Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, hang on. Here's the difference. My mom changed her name AFTER she was Romanian. She was Romanian at birth.

I changed my name after I became Romanina. Since my birth cert was issued a couple of months ago.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as the person who helped my mom, this is what she said when I asked if she could help again

"The last time she helped me get my birth cert it took her huge amount of hours to do it and lots of headaches. My aunt said that it nearly put her over the brink. So long story short - she is there, but I don't think she'd be willing or able to do it. This may be best left to a lawyer who is used to dealing with the system."

Love,
Mom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
josephf



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

naturegirl321 wrote:
Wait, hang on. Here's the difference. My mom changed her name AFTER she was Romanian. She was Romanian at birth.

I changed my name after I became Romanina. Since my birth cert was issued a couple of months ago.


One thing you should keep in mind, is the whole point of this process is to prove that you are in fact a Romanian citizen from birth. You aren't becoming a Romanian citizen; Romanian law made you a Romanian citizen from birth by virtue of the fact you were born to a Romanian citizen parent. The fact that you were born outside Romania (and never even lived in Romania) makes no difference insofar as Romanian citizenship law considering you a Romanian citizen from birth. All you are doing is documenting and proving the fact that you were always considered a citizen under Romanian law.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

josephf wrote:
One thing you should keep in mind, is the whole point of this process is to prove that you are in fact a Romanian citizen from birth. You aren't becoming a Romanian citizen; Romanian law made you a Romanian citizen from birth by virtue of the fact you were born to a Romanian citizen parent. The fact that you were born outside Romania (and never even lived in Romania) makes no difference insofar as Romanian citizenship law considering you a Romanian citizen from birth. All you are doing is documenting and proving the fact that you were always considered a citizen under Romanian law.


I agree with you. I do, but try convincing the authorities otherwise. They're trying to uphold the fact that my mother, grandfather, grandmother and I were revoked of citizenship since they left before the fall of communism. Under that law, those who left were stateless. No matter that if they upload that law, they're upholding communist law, they still do it. The fact that I don't speak Romanian, nor have even stepped foot in the country isn't helping the matter.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
troglodyte



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Last edited by troglodyte on Sat May 04, 2013 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

troglodyte wrote:
naturegirl321 wrote:
The fact that I don't speak Romanian, nor have even stepped foot in the country isn't helping the matter.


Not only is it "not helping", it's the key part of the problem.

If you just went there and integrated into the system, you'd probably be able to resolve your citizenship quest within a year. Two at tops. Romania is a place where you have to be there in person to get things done.

In Romania things are much like here in Korea. There's the official rules and procedures, and then there's the actual rules and procedures. Even without bribing people or getting an acquaintance to pull some strings for you, being there in person to argue your point of view or to push to get something done will get a lot more accomplished than writing and calling offices.

I think that you're making a mountain out of a mole hill.


Not so sure. after all, I did get my Romanian birth cert while in Peru Smile Anyways, I have a lawyer in Romania and he's run into the same issues. I'm not the one making a mountain out of a mole hill, it's the govt.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The news is that if either of my grandparents or my mother is registered as a Romanian, then I could get the passport. I should find out by September.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New news. I went to the emabssy here in Seoul. I presented all my docs and basically they said that there was a problem with my birth cert When I got it, I noticed that the ID number was left off. I asked and said it wasn't necessary. basically, it IS necessary and I've been screwed over a bit. Without that, I'm not registered.

So they said that I have to get my parents' licenses and their birth certs and present that. My father has refused to give me his, saying that people will steal his identity and my mother's name doesn't match her birth name.

My lawyer is also working on stuff over there, but honestly I'm ready to give up. I finally got a birth cert and it's basically null and void.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
josephf



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be sad to give up after having gotten this far and spent over 6 years trying. Keep it up, in my humble opinion.

If you tell them your father doesn't want to cooperate perhaps they can work around him. After all you don't lose your rights due to someone else's non-cooperation (even a parent). The authorities are able to look up his birth record in their municipal archives with his name and date of birth.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

josephf wrote:
It would be sad to give up after having gotten this far and spent over 6 years trying. Keep it up, in my humble opinion.

If you tell them your father doesn't want to cooperate perhaps they can work around him. After all you don't lose your rights due to someone else's non-cooperation (even a parent). The authorities are able to look up his birth record in their municipal archives with his name and date of birth.


He's not Romanian. Only my mother is. Sigh, it's been more than 6 yeras. I first contacted the CHicago embassy back in Sept 1999. I believe that the LIma embassy purposely left off the ID number to render the birth cert invalid.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
misteradventure



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 244

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:48 am    Post subject: Treaties are legally binding Reply with quote

If Romania is a signatory to the UNHCR, then you have a right to Romanian citizenship.

You have a right to return to the country of your birth. You cannot lose your citizenship unless you specifically denounce/renounce citizenship (and this is a specific process). Bureaucrats are playing politics.

The solution is often beating them at their game before they play.

Do the research. Quote the law at them. Treaties are legally binding and modify existing law (e.g. the Constitution) unless specifically overturned in court.

What often happens is that something is rejected on a technicality. This protects the bureaucrat from responsibility.

The solution is twofold- give them legal basis to grant your claim and thereby protect them from mistakes. If Romania give Grandma citizenship, then she's got it. Next step (separate) apply for your own citizenship. One step at a time. You don't always dump all ingredients into a pan to make bread (dough must be kneaded, etc.) so why should you do other things that way?

Best wishes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: Treaties are legally binding Reply with quote

misteradventure wrote:
If Romania is a signatory to the UNHCR, then you have a right to Romanian citizenship.

You have a right to return to the country of your birth. You cannot lose your citizenship unless you specifically denounce/renounce citizenship (and this is a specific process). Bureaucrats are playing politics.

The solution is often beating them at their game before they play.

Do the research. Quote the law at them. Treaties are legally binding and modify existing law (e.g. the Constitution) unless specifically overturned in court.

What often happens is that something is rejected on a technicality. This protects the bureaucrat from responsibility.

The solution is twofold- give them legal basis to grant your claim and thereby protect them from mistakes. If Romania give Grandma citizenship, then she's got it. Next step (separate) apply for your own citizenship. One step at a time. You don't always dump all ingredients into a pan to make bread (dough must be kneaded, etc.) so why should you do other things that way?

Best wishes.

Well, Romania's laws during the communist regime say that if you LEFT Romania, no matter what age, your citizenship was revoked. Here's what makes it worse.

When my grandfather he left he wasn't even given a Romanian passport, just papers.

My grandmother was Romanian through marriage. She left with my mom and her sister. They were given "stateless" passports.

I've tried. Serioulsy I have. I'm ready to pull my hair out.

So, in theory, if you want to uphold communist regime laws, then no one in my family HAS citizenship and we'd have to get it back. We can't since our ROmanian language skills aren't that good. And one the main reasons why I'm doing this is so that my kids can be citizens and I have to get citizenship before they're born and it looks like that's not going to happen.

I've tried quoted laws, you don't think that I haven't? FOr the past 10 years I've been searching for laws, Israel has the most compentent info. I FINALLY got my birth cert, after nearly a decade. Now they say it's no good. It's a catch 22. Simply put: they don't WANT me to have citizenship, so I proabbly won't get it.

If you're volunteering to help me, than that would be great. But unless you've dealt with Romanian govt officials, you really have no idea what you're getting yourself into. I have a lawyer and he's also given the run around. They don't want us. That's it.


Last edited by naturegirl321 on Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
troglodyte



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: Treaties are legally binding Reply with quote

naturegirl321 wrote:

Well, Romania's laws during the communist regime say that if you LEFT Romania, no matter what age, your citizenship was revoked. Here's what makes it worse.


I don't think it was revoked automatically by leaving. I know plenty of people who left and retained their citizenship. I also know others who had to intentionally renounce their Romanian citizenship in order to get citizenship in another country (e.g. Austria). The people I know who renounced it were either already out of the country or had an offer of citizenship before they left (e.g. from Germany or Israel). In both cases, they were able to get it back after 1990 as long as their new country of citizenship allowed dual citizenship.

naturegirl321 wrote:

My grandfather was chucked in prision as a traitor to Romania for 5 years. When he left he wasn't even given a Romanian passport, just papers.


naturegirl321 wrote:

My grandmother was Romanian through marriage. She left with my mom and her sister. They were given "stateless" passports.


Where was she from? What was her original citizenship? Did she actually get Romanian citizenship? Marriage alone doesn't grant citizenship. It only helps you get a long term residence permit.


naturegirl321 wrote:

I've tried. Serioulsy I have. I'm ready to pull my hair out.

So, in theory, if you want to uphold communist regime laws, then no one in my family HAS citizenship and we'd have to get it back. We can't since our ROmanian language skills aren't that good. And one the main reasons why I'm doing this is so that my kids can be citizens and I have to get citizenship before they're born and it looks like that's not going to happen.


Then just give birth there.


naturegirl321 wrote:

I've tried quoted laws, you don't think that I haven't? FOr the past 10 years I've been searching for laws, Israel has the most compentent info. I FINALLY got my birth cert, after nearly a decade. Now they say it's no good. It's a catch 22. Simply put: they don't WANT me to have citizenship, so I proabbly won't get it.

If you're volunteering to help me, than that would be great. But unless you've dealt with Romanian govt officials, you really have no idea what you're getting yourself into. I have a lawyer and he's also given the run around. They don't want us. That's it.


Have you tried different lawyers? Maybe a different lawyer would provide different results.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Treaties are legally binding Reply with quote

troglodyte wrote:
I don't think it was revoked automatically by leaving. I know plenty of people who left and retained their citizenship. I also know others who had to intentionally renounce their Romanian citizenship in order to get citizenship in another country (e.g. Austria). The people I know who renounced it were either already out of the country or had an offer of citizenship before they left (e.g. from Germany or Israel). In both cases, they were able to get it back after 1990 as long as their new country of citizenship allowed dual citizenship.


http://www.romanianpassport.co.il/english/romanian-citizenship-law/
Art. 28. Losing the Romanian citizenship by accepting the disclaiming has no effect on the citizenship of the spouse and underage children.

However, if both parents obtain the acceptance for disclaiming the Romanian citizenship, and the underage child lives with them abroad or leaves the country together with them, the underage child loses the Romanian citizenship at the same time with his parents, and if the latter lost their citizenship at different dates, on the last of these dates. The underage child that leaves the country, in order to live abroad, after both of his parents have lost their citizenship, also loses his Romanian citizenship when he leaves the country.

Since they left in 1957 and my grandpa two years later, they basically committed "high treason" Smile because they left permanently and have never been back. As I mentioned before they left with stateless passports and my grandpa wasn't even given that.

Grandma was born in the US to German parents. However, US citizenship laws at that time allows her half sister to get US citizenship since my grandma wasn't married at the time, but my mom DIDN?T since her father was Romanian and my grandmother was a couple months short of the 10 years necessary to pass on citizenship.

My understanding is that my grandmother was revoked of US citizenship , according to Romanian laws, since she married a Romanian. She lived there for nearly 20 years. She LEFT Romania on a Romanian stateless passport even though she was a US ctizen, as was my mom's half sister. I've asked my grandmother about this American-Romanian citizenship stuff, but she can't remember. she's getting old and can't really remember her parents names and birth days either. So it's hard.

Cant just give birth in RO. Laws have changed. That's like saying if I gave birth in Korea my kids would be Korean. It's jus sanguine, not jus tierra or whatever.

Anyways, it's frustrating. And to boot, now I'm doing US taxes, so doubly stressed Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Romania All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13, 14  Next
Page 12 of 14

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China