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Pay In China??
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No it doesn't. You have to think about the entire package a school offers and not just salary.


Amides can be reversed but money in the hand is solid.

You can have all those aspects with a contract that pays more money.


Quote:
Some classic stuff on this thread though, go to page 3 and read about the guy who spends 4000 per month on his daily intake of Starbucks coffee. It's guys like that with major spending issues who distort things on this forum.


Distort or afford!
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7969



Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoBillyNO wrote:
Quote:
No it doesn't. You have to think about the entire package a school offers and not just salary.


Amides can be reversed but money in the hand is solid.

You can have all those aspects with a contract that pays more money.

Some people can. But someone with a BA in Garden Studies likely can't. Then again if you're an accomplished BS artist you can achieve almost anything in this business with a bit of effort.

NoBillyNO wrote:
Quote:
Some classic stuff on this thread though, go to page 3 and read about the guy who spends 4000 per month on his daily intake of Starbucks coffee. It's guys like that with major spending issues who distort things on this forum.


Distort or afford!


Here's the java junkie one post later:

2 up Lee wrote:
I do spend more than I earn! Confused I have been plowing through the savings I brought over for 'emergencies'. Crying or Very sad
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choudoufu



Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoBillyNO wrote:
Amides can be reversed but money in the hand is solid.


Question

Definition of AMIDE
1 : an inorganic compound derived from ammonia by replacement of an atom of hydrogen with another element (as a metal)
2 : any of a class of organic compounds derived from ammonia or an amine by replacement of hydrogen with an acyl group
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fred13331



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 108
Location: Southern China

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7969 wrote:
Nice revival of a nine year old thread Fred. Half the posters on here are probably deceased by now.

fred13331 wrote:
Quote:


Where I work now, I teach 12 hours a week, live off campus in a rent free apartment, and make 5500 RMB a month. I also teach about 10 hours at different locations for at least 100 RMB an hour


If the point you are trying to make is that this guy, by accepting 3500, is helping to keep salaries down, that is a fair point. However, in all honesty, I think anyone accepting 5500 a month is actually doing the same thing. 5500 is peanuts, it is an insult, and accepting it does in fact help keep salaries down

No it doesn't. You have to think about the entire package a school offers and not just salary. That message has been posted on this forum dozens of times yet people still don't get it. 5500 a month, a few months of paid holiday, a free apartment, and part time hours of 12-16 per week is a pretty fair deal. If you think it isn't then take one of the many jobs that pays a lot more, but also offers only a couple of weeks vacation per year, requires you to work 25-30 hours a week morning, noon, night and weekends, and may or may not pay for your accommodation. Oh did I mention most of the people taking these aforementioned jobs have no real teaching qualifications to offer an employer? Those with real qualifications can do much better than the uni or private language mill, but they're a small minority of ESL teachers here.



Sorry - I disagree. I work 32 weeks X 16 classes, great apartment. Do a lot of OT work, but that is my choice. Get paid for 12 months. I mean, if you think it is ok, fair enough, but to me 55,000, or 66,000 a year depending on 10 or 12 salaries is joke, an insult EVEN IF you have all these holidays.
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Some people can. But someone with a BA in Garden Studies likely can't. Then again if you're an accomplished BS artist you can achieve almost anything in this business with a bit of effort.


Good self marketing or BS Artist?
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7969



Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoBillyNO wrote:
Quote:
Some people can. But someone with a BA in Garden Studies likely can't. Then again if you're an accomplished BS artist you can achieve almost anything in this business with a bit of effort.


Good self marketing or BS Artist?

Top ten occupations that require good "self marketing" skills:

1. Snake Oil Salesman
2. Huckster
3. Shyster
4. Flim Flam Man
5. Lawyer
6. Knave
7. Scoundrel
8. Pitchman
9. Rapscallion
10. ESL teacher
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ecubyrd



Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fred13331 wrote:
7969 wrote:
Nice revival of a nine year old thread Fred. Half the posters on here are probably deceased by now.

fred13331 wrote:
Quote:


Where I work now, I teach 12 hours a week, live off campus in a rent free apartment, and make 5500 RMB a month. I also teach about 10 hours at different locations for at least 100 RMB an hour


If the point you are trying to make is that this guy, by accepting 3500, is helping to keep salaries down, that is a fair point. However, in all honesty, I think anyone accepting 5500 a month is actually doing the same thing. 5500 is peanuts, it is an insult, and accepting it does in fact help keep salaries down

No it doesn't. You have to think about the entire package a school offers and not just salary. That message has been posted on this forum dozens of times yet people still don't get it. 5500 a month, a few months of paid holiday, a free apartment, and part time hours of 12-16 per week is a pretty fair deal. If you think it isn't then take one of the many jobs that pays a lot more, but also offers only a couple of weeks vacation per year, requires you to work 25-30 hours a week morning, noon, night and weekends, and may or may not pay for your accommodation. Oh did I mention most of the people taking these aforementioned jobs have no real teaching qualifications to offer an employer? Those with real qualifications can do much better than the uni or private language mill, but they're a small minority of ESL teachers here.



Sorry - I disagree. I work 32 weeks X 16 classes, great apartment. Do a lot of OT work, but that is my choice. Get paid for 12 months. I mean, if you think it is ok, fair enough, but to me 55,000, or 66,000 a year depending on 10 or 12 salaries is joke, an insult EVEN IF you have all these holidays.


The thing is there are several of us that have the same benefits or better in that regard and make way more in salary, so I agree that those that continue to accept low salary jobs based on "package" keep salaries down. My salary is roughly 3-4x what a typical uni salary is, get 5000rmb towards housing allowing me to choose where I want to live, work roughly 36-37 weeks a year (paid for all 12 months) with no weekends or evening/night work, can teach extra outside of work classes if I chose to @1000rmb for 3 hours each time, blah blah. So, in the grand scheme of things I'd say that a lot of people either sell themselves short or just aren't qualified to do any better.
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NoBillyNO



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 1762

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Top ten occupations that require good "self marketing" skills:

1. Snake Oil Salesman
2. Huckster
3. Shyster
4. Flim Flam Man
5. Lawyer
6. Knave
7. Scoundrel
8. Pitchman
9. Rapscallion
10. ESL teacher


Perhaps BS is the preferred way the those who consider the ESL teacher as a scoundrel. I would prefer to have those who consider themselves professional working with me.
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ecubyrd



Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

7969 wrote:
A. BA in History holder working at a university for 5000-7000 per month.

B. Individual holding qualified teacher status from home country working at an international school earning 15,000 + per month.

The two groups aren't competing for the same jobs, and I don't see how the people in Group A are lowering the salaries for anyone in Group B (which I believe you are part of ecubyrd).

You could argue that someone in Group A who takes a university job for 2000 a month is lowering salaries for people in Group A, but you'd have a hard time proving it I think.


Fair enough; you are right, but I still think salaries should be higher for people in group A if they actually do meet the requirements to teach in China. I guess I'm just optomistically thinking in that regard.
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7969



Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A. BA in History holder working at a university for 5000-7000 per month.

B. Individual holding qualified teacher status from home country working at an international school earning 15,000 + per month.

The two groups aren't competing for the same jobs, and I don't see how the people in Group A are lowering the salaries for anyone in Group B (which I believe you are part of ecubyrd).

You could argue that someone in Group A who takes a university job for 2000 a month is lowering salaries for people in Group A, but you'd have a hard time proving it I think.
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3896
Location: Pittsburgh

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecubyrd wrote:
fred13331 wrote:
7969 wrote:
Nice revival of a nine year old thread Fred. Half the posters on here are probably deceased by now.

fred13331 wrote:
Quote:


Where I work now, I teach 12 hours a week, live off campus in a rent free apartment, and make 5500 RMB a month. I also teach about 10 hours at different locations for at least 100 RMB an hour


If the point you are trying to make is that this guy, by accepting 3500, is helping to keep salaries down, that is a fair point. However, in all honesty, I think anyone accepting 5500 a month is actually doing the same thing. 5500 is peanuts, it is an insult, and accepting it does in fact help keep salaries down

No it doesn't. You have to think about the entire package a school offers and not just salary. That message has been posted on this forum dozens of times yet people still don't get it. 5500 a month, a few months of paid holiday, a free apartment, and part time hours of 12-16 per week is a pretty fair deal. If you think it isn't then take one of the many jobs that pays a lot more, but also offers only a couple of weeks vacation per year, requires you to work 25-30 hours a week morning, noon, night and weekends, and may or may not pay for your accommodation. Oh did I mention most of the people taking these aforementioned jobs have no real teaching qualifications to offer an employer? Those with real qualifications can do much better than the uni or private language mill, but they're a small minority of ESL teachers here.



Sorry - I disagree. I work 32 weeks X 16 classes, great apartment. Do a lot of OT work, but that is my choice. Get paid for 12 months. I mean, if you think it is ok, fair enough, but to me 55,000, or 66,000 a year depending on 10 or 12 salaries is joke, an insult EVEN IF you have all these holidays.


The thing is there are several of us that have the same benefits or better in that regard and make way more in salary, so I agree that those that continue to accept low salary jobs based on "package" keep salaries down. My salary is roughly 3-4x what a typical uni salary is, get 5000rmb towards housing allowing me to choose where I want to live, work roughly 36-37 weeks a year (paid for all 12 months) with no weekends or evening/night work, can teach extra outside of work classes if I chose to @1000rmb for 3 hours each time, blah blah. So, in the grand scheme of things I'd say that a lot of people either sell themselves short or just aren't qualified to do any better.


Without telling us your qualifications, it would be difficult to know. If you are teaching at an international school that is a different story.
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fred13331



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 108
Location: Southern China

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JZer wrote:
ecubyrd wrote:
fred13331 wrote:
7969 wrote:
Nice revival of a nine year old thread Fred. Half the posters on here are probably deceased by now.

fred13331 wrote:
Quote:


Where I work now, I teach 12 hours a week, live off campus in a rent free apartment, and make 5500 RMB a month. I also teach about 10 hours at different locations for at least 100 RMB an hour


If the point you are trying to make is that this guy, by accepting 3500, is helping to keep salaries down, that is a fair point. However, in all honesty, I think anyone accepting 5500 a month is actually doing the same thing. 5500 is peanuts, it is an insult, and accepting it does in fact help keep salaries down

No it doesn't. You have to think about the entire package a school offers and not just salary. That message has been posted on this forum dozens of times yet people still don't get it. 5500 a month, a few months of paid holiday, a free apartment, and part time hours of 12-16 per week is a pretty fair deal. If you think it isn't then take one of the many jobs that pays a lot more, but also offers only a couple of weeks vacation per year, requires you to work 25-30 hours a week morning, noon, night and weekends, and may or may not pay for your accommodation. Oh did I mention most of the people taking these aforementioned jobs have no real teaching qualifications to offer an employer? Those with real qualifications can do much better than the uni or private language mill, but they're a small minority of ESL teachers here.



Sorry - I disagree. I work 32 weeks X 16 classes, great apartment. Do a lot of OT work, but that is my choice. Get paid for 12 months. I mean, if you think it is ok, fair enough, but to me 55,000, or 66,000 a year depending on 10 or 12 salaries is joke, an insult EVEN IF you have all these holidays.


The thing is there are several of us that have the same benefits or better in that regard and make way more in salary, so I agree that those that continue to accept low salary jobs based on "package" keep salaries down. My salary is roughly 3-4x what a typical uni salary is, get 5000rmb towards housing allowing me to choose where I want to live, work roughly 36-37 weeks a year (paid for all 12 months) with no weekends or evening/night work, can teach extra outside of work classes if I chose to @1000rmb for 3 hours each time, blah blah. So, in the grand scheme of things I'd say that a lot of people either sell themselves short or just aren't qualified to do any better.


Without telling us your qualifications, it would be difficult to know. If you are teaching at an international school that is a different story.



If he was to do that, list quals and salary details, he would be branded a showoff. Thats how it works on these boards. If anyone starts to describe a package, significantly better than the average, people call foul and call him braggart . I have seen it many times
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3896
Location: Pittsburgh

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would hardly call someone earning 15,000-20,000RMB at an international school bragging. That is pretty much the going rate.
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jibbs



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it hasn't been mentioned yet -- Depending on the job you could be paid just 9 out of 12 months in a year, and might want to find other work during those breaks.
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GreatApe



Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 580
Location: South of Heaven and East of Nowhere

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JZer wrote:
Quote:
I would hardly call someone earning 15,000-20,000RMB at an international school bragging. That is pretty much the going rate.

It depends on exactly what city you're talking about, but I'd generally agree with JZer on this. I think the salary range for a lot of cities outside HK, Shanghai, and Beijing is probably closer to 12,000 to 17,000 (depending on years of experience, qualifications, etc.), but there are teachers at my school making 15,000 to 20,000.

This is my 2nd year teaching at an I.S. and it's a lot of work. IMO, it's also well-worth it and it can be a lot of fun, but when testing and examination time rolls around, it can be a lot of work.

--GA
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