Job Discussion Forums

[Guest]

There is a LOT of it - and the worst part is, it is EXPECTED. I know there will probably be posters saying well, it happens everywhere, but I have never seen as much of it as I have here.

Some of what I say in this post may offend people who fancy themselves politically correct, but it is an accurate picture of what I have found here. Yes, I may be "culturally insensitive" but I want to prepare people for some things they will see here. Warning to Western women - be CAREFUL, and try not to go out alone unescorted by another woman or a man, especially at night.

Rickshaw drivers will negotiate a price with you if they say their meter is broken - then when you get to the destination, will try to say you agreed on a higher price. Only if you threaten to call the police do they back down.

Some of my co-workers took a trip over the New Year holiday, only to be told when they returned home that there was another price involved and they would have to come up with the equivalent of US$500.00.

My thought is, just because you might live in a country that is poor, is no excuse to cheat to get money, something I have spoken to several natives about.

Yesterday a canteen worker at my company said I did not pay him for some food I had two weeks ago - but I distinctly paid another worker in the same location and had (thankfully) insisted on a receipt. The manager wasn't too pleased with that employee, who most likely would have pocketed the money had I given in.

Westerners and wealthier Indians are charged consistently higher rates at stores unless they put up a major fuss. The "streets of gold" mentality is very prevalent here among poor, dirty, lower-class Indians, who seem obsessed with "Bollywood" (Bombay equivalent of America's Hollywood), sex and pleasure. Westerners are sometimes charged higher rates for the same services as well, such as airline tickets, than Indians are for the exact same trip. Negotiate and be forceful - you HAVE to, to beat these guys at their dirty little game.

I don't understand the low respect for life in general. Due partly to some of the corruption among government officials, people "abscond" after traffic accidents here, including those which kill others. I personally saw a man lying bloodied and face down in the street after being struck by a car less than a minute earlier and no one would stop to help him. I read in the paper constantly about people being knocked off two-wheelers (motorcycles) by cars and lying dying in the streets while the driver of the car flees. Can you imagine the penalty if you did that in the US and other places? For a city Bangalore's size, there are very few traffic signals and many do not obey those that are present.

And as far as two-wheelers, very few drivers or riders wear helmets of any kind. Women often sit side-saddle on the back of motorbikes, sometimes even holding babies. Sometimes the baby is held on the lap of the dad driving, between the handlebars! No concern for safety.

I find it very odd that Indians in general (at least among the lower classes) don't seem to understand the consequences of their obsession with marriage and the numbers of children they have. Men who aren't married by 25 and women, especially, who aren't married by 21 are considered losers. The term "spinster" is still very common here, even in supposedly enlightened Bangalore. The term "single" to define an unmarried adult is never used here. I have an Indian friend who has warned me about certain things, who says that the reason for many children is that people believe the more children, the better they will be taken care of in old age, just like the farmer beliefs of years ago in America, only this is in the city where it really causes problems. India has over a billion people in an area the size of the US east of the Mississippi River.

Eve-teasing is very common, which to me is a very barbaric way of harassing women. As expected, the harassers are men in their early to mid 20's and the victims women in their teens and early 20's. This is made worse by the male dominance in the culture - presently there are 973 adult Indian women for every 1000 men - very skewed, considering that in most countries women outnumber men by around 1 or 2 per 1000. As in Korea, sex determination in the womb has now been made illegal, owing to the high number of abortions of female fetuses, but the practice still continues.

Nationalism is rampant - even though India is made up of states that speak different languages and is multicultural, there is a strong feeling of "Mother India" and many people refuse to listen to Western ideas, although they certainly ask about them often and consider Hollywood morals their standard.

A rambling post this is, I realize, but all true. Just be careful if you come. And bring plenty of mosquito repellent - you'll need it, as they breed in all the garbage and dirty standing water, and it doesn't get cold enough here to really kill any number of them.

[Travel Zen]

All of it is true to varying degrees.....but so what?

You can say points just as hard and bitter about any country in the world, especially developing ones.

I say enjoy your stay in India, and work through any problems.

[Guest]

I enjoy my time here very much, but I think it is wise to let people know the good AND the bad. Women especially need to be careful, and I strongly believe in that.

On the plus side, Indian families are much stronger and closer than those in the West, generally. We could learn a lot from them. Relationships are very important.

I feel visitors need to be aware of the "greased palm" syndrome, that's all.

[garbotara]

[quote=]I enjoy my time here very much, but I think it is wise to let people know the good AND the bad. Women especially need to be careful, and I strongly believe in that.

On the plus side, Indian families are much stronger and closer than those in the West, generally. We could learn a lot from them. Relationships are very important.

I feel visitors need to be aware of the "greased palm" syndrome, that's all.[/quote]

If a man touches you, hit him. You can embarrass the hell out of him.

[refazenda]

Not good advice. Depending on where you are, that "embarrassment" could come back to bite you - hard. India is very much a male-dominated society (whish is a shame, because Hinduism was traditionally a matriarchal religion, but I digress), and men often do not take kindly to women making them look bad.

[garbotara]

[Travel Zen]

I would agree that it's best to scream and shout. Better to slap, hit and punch an agressive person.

I'm in Mumbai now and have travelled around a bit.

(Brace yourself for some very opinionated opinions)

Some (not all) Indian men are simply brute chauvanistic pigs, strutting around and being pretty nasty. If they don't like you or someone, they would hack and spit on the ground, they piss on building walls, scratch their balls and generally boss each other around in a mean way. It's pretty wicked to see and you have to come here to see it yourself.
This is what i've seen and compare that behavior to what I've seen in the west.... but if you make a fuss in public, many would come to your rescue, as the latest message
has said.

[garbotara]

[Stephen Jones]

I don't think what the OP is describing is corruption; it's just people attempting to cheat you. Corruption is when the government does it (which is of course equally rampant in India).

The Arab world has the same attitude towards a stranger; in India it is more persisitent but probably less aggressive.

Incidentally the first time you will come across it is when you get off the plane at Delhi and change your money at the airport bank. The teller will try and pocked part of the balance. I should have got 12,000 rupees but they guy only gave me 11,900. I would never have noticed but somebody going to Nepal warned me as I was walking towards it.

The reason people abscond after traffic accidents is for their own safety. They have no reason to want to be attacked by a mob and have the car burnt. If they are arrested later at least they can have the lawyer and their other backup in place, and tney will be in a stronger bargaining position. The fact that the victim will attempt to claim as much as he can out of you independent of his real injuries is another factor.

And, possibly because he is living in Bangalore, the OP does not give you a feel of the inventiveness of the scam artist. There is one gentleman in Dehli whose only known occupation is to put shit on your shoes. He then offers to clean them. The first time he did it was next to a disco and after a bit of manhandling he went away and I got some paper from the doorman at the local disco. Two weeks later in Connaught Place he'd forgotten he's seen me before and tried it again. This time I made him clean them for free, though his nose didn't make a very good job of it.

The rule with bargaining is that you must know when to walk away. If you disagree with the rickshaw driver's price, walk away. If it's a good price he'll come after you. And don't think that you are being picked on just because you are a European; the same kind of bargaining happens with Indians rich or poor. The first time Ghandi's assassins tried to kill him they had to call it off because they were involved in a row with the rickshaw driver over the fare to his house.

And if you just want a holiday, and would prefer less hassle, come to Sri Lanka. It's not totally hassle free but has many of the attractions of India for a much lower stress level.

[Nicola H]

I've been in Bombay since September due to boyfriend's job and think I can relate to most of the other posters- especially the need to humiliate the perverts as much as possible (although that would mean screeching at 90% of guys passed on the street). I'd heard about "eve-teasing" before I came, but thought that it would be the exception rather than the rule- man, was I wrong. I got used to it pretty quickly, but i'll never accept that "that's just the way it is" as loads of visitors to India recommend. I really don't get the whole "India is so spiritual man, so chilled" thing that so many backpackers go on about all the time. This country is amazing and fascinating in so many ways but it also has bigger problems than most, and although things are changing, an awful lot more still needs to change...

Especially Indian men's attitude to women, particularly towards western women. I can't imagine the uproar if all female visitors to the UK were groped and flashed on the streets of Central London in the middle of the day. I can't count how many times i've been "accidentally" walked into in the middle of an empty pavement, i've been flashed 4 or 5 times (not counting the men that just grab their private parts and leer as I walk by), one guy approached me while "pleasuring himself openly" on Marine Drive, which is a really central area. Then there are the lewd comments as you go by, the kissing sounds that most men feel obliged to do as you walk past, and the need to dive into the gutter as men veer towards you, leaving no space to escape. I just don't understand what they get out of it? The worst thing is, if it doesn't happen for an hour or so I have to run to the nearest mirror... to find out what's wrong with me!!!

For me that's the big turn off about living here, but the rest of the country can be pretty insane too- i've just learned to laugh, or else i'd go crazy. However, things that make me incredulous and frustrated/ amused are:

! The way that people pay their bills here. No direct debit, no going to the bank to pay once the bill has arrived, no issuing of cheques- oh no, some guy just turns up at the door unannounced and expects you to hand over 3 months cable and broadband fees. (Must admit that bf's company sorts out the utilities, so maybe they would be paid in a more sensible way). We had our internet cut off because we hadn't been in when the guy called, he didn't leave a note and nobody called to tell us what was happening.

! The way people don't listen, or maybe just won't say "no" in case you decide not to spend your rupees with them. Ex. I order in restaurant, waiter smiles and goes away. Waiter comes back with something I didn't order. I query the order. Waiter tells me that he thought i'd prefer this to what I ordered. I say that i'd rather have what I ordered. Waiter eventually returns and informs me that they don't have it today.

! Being ripped off/ misled/ lied to on a daily basis. A friend of mine booked a backwater cruise in Kerala and paid extra for a cabin with private shower. Upon arrival she complained that the shower was broken, the tour guide replied that the cabin HAD a shower, but she hadn't asked if it worked and that she would have to pay the higher price. My personal favouite happened to a friend who works for a big insurance company out here. He was in charge of organising a training weekend at a hotel in Goa. Being aware of the need to double check everything, he had an extensive list of requirements that you may take for granted in other countries. He felt sure that he had covered all bases, but upon arrival he found out that he hadn't asked "Is the training room more that 4'9" in hight"...but sir, it's a sit down training room. Generally it's just people trying to extort you in shops etc.

! Bombay taxis. Their meters are out of date and need to be recalibrated, so you have to multiply the fare by 14, and I usually round to the next ten. The drivers carry fare conversion charts and don't like to show them to you... I pity the unsuspecting newly arrived tourist.

I could go on all day... but I won't. Needless to say there are also tons of incredible experiences to be had here, and one good India moment usually makes up for five bad ones.

To all in India- remember to keep laughing at the madness, but let that steam out on the people that deserve it, if you keep it bottled up you'll end up exploding at some poor innocent who's probably the one person that's being genuine in their intentions!

N

[nomadder]

WHat is Eve teasing?

I heard about being able to slap men but when my foot was fondled on the train I kicked the hand away and was immediately slapped and then kicked for good measure so I don't recommend it. Maybe it works better for Indian women.

Luckily I'm only travelling here and can't wait to get out. Pity those who live here, especially women. I'm so turned off of this medieval toilet that I can hardly enjoy the few good experiences. I have to laugh at the nationalism.

[junkmail]

[antonita]

well i do have to agree with whats written about india inspite of the fact that i am a non resident indian myself. well i do not intend to justify all the wrong things that's happing there but this is all that i have to say india is still a young country after independence and it needs time and needless to say the policitians do not have the best of intentions in their minds. do let me know if some one has encountered any problems in kerala and cochin especially. and if some one has any questions regarding south india i can be of help.

[Dolma]

I would recommend Nepal(Kathmandu) over India for women traveling alone - when I walked through K'du alone I had no problems with harassment whatsoever. Touts are another story, especially in the tourist areas and bazaars. I think Nepali culture is more modest in some ways than Indian, at least that was my personal impression. In India or Nepal I would definitely recommend wearing salwar kameez rather than western dress-you will be treated with more respect and not stand out so much.

[junkmail]

I reccommend Minali and Goa too.
Sorry to disagree with you about this Dolma but I'd prefer women didn't wear salwar kameez or saris because they're forced on married women in India. I'd rather see western women not reinforce these dress codes.