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istorik
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:28 pm Post subject: What Germans should not do in america(or britain) |
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| I have a class of German engineers that occasionally travel. They wanted to have a list of things they might not realize could get them in hot water in the USA. For instance: imagine a German on a business trip to Los Angeles goes to the music store to buy a rap alblum for some reason. What do you think would happen when he asks 'Hello, where is your black music section?' Depending on whose working the counter he might get yelled at or worse. Also most of my class didnt realize that if you dont tip at bars in the US the bartender gets pissed off and ignores you. Can you guys think of anything else. It doesnt have to even be the USA, it could be things from the UK or wherever. |
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poro
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:56 pm Post subject: V-signs etc. |
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When Germans want two of something, they very often give a V-sign - which of course is not rude in Germany. But it could be taken the wrong way in an English-speaking country.
Sometimes they twiddle their thumbs when listening to someone, which could also cause irritation.
Dare one mention the subject of loud voices?  |
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Chris
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 116
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Just a little thing I found "interesting".
After eating, many will cover their mouths at the table and use their other hand to pick the food out of their teeth. It seems like their form of a toothpick. It's not a bad thing at all, just different.
I'll have to think of some others. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Here is an idea!! Don't ask every America why people voted for Bush!! It gets old after a while. I have been living in Germany and I get tired of explaining to every other person why some people vote for Bush. |
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poro
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject: Bush |
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LOL JZer!
But Bush does have a very negative image in Europe, and it's genuinely mystifying to most of us why anyone would vote for him.
If the election had been in my country, he wouldn't even have made it to 15% ! |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| If the election had been in my country, he wouldn't even have made it to 15% ! |
That is the whole point!! The election was not in your country, so it really does not matter who you would vote for. Does it matter who I would have voted for in the last German (Schr�der or Stoiber) election or the upcoming election in England?
P.S. I did not vote for Bush but it is not mystifying why people voted for Bush!! Maybe it shows that Europeans are as intolerant of other opinions as Bush!!! |
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poro
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| Does it matter who I would have voted for in the last German (Schr�der or Stoiber) election or the upcoming election in England? |
Why not? If you know enough about it to have an opinion, why shouldn't you express it? Who would you have voted for, if you don't mind my asking?
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| P.S. I did not vote for Bush but it is not mystifying why people voted for Bush!! Maybe it shows that Europeans are as intolerant of other opinions as Bush!!! |
Well, with respect, maybe it's not mystifying to you, but it is to most of us. You're right that some Europeans are intolerant, but it's not always unreasonable. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, with respect, maybe it's not mystifying to you, but it is to most of us. You're right that some Europeans are intolerant, but it's not always unreasonable. |
It is not rocket science. The people who voted for Bush, voted for him for the same reason that Germans voted for Schr�der and the SPD. You know why, they thought he was the best candidate for the job. Just because you do not agree with their opinion does not make it mystifying why people voted for Bush.
As for it being reasonable to be intolerant. humm, do you guys want to be like Bush. I cannot see that this line of thinking is much different than the way Bush thinks (accept you are not killing anyone). Bush does not accept that democracy may not be the best thing for every country and many Europeans cannot accept that people in a country might have other priorities than they do. i.e. we all need to have a secular state and whatever else Europeans find important.
...Well I am going to get some bashing because I imagine that most ESL teachers are anti-Bush but this is not about being for or against Bush. This is about Europeans not being able to accept that some people might think differently than they do. |
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poro
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
As for it being reasonable to be intolerant. humm, do you guys want to be like Bush. I cannot see that this line of thinking is much different than the way Bush thinks (accept you are not killing anyone) |
You almost have your finger on it - it's hard to tolerate those who unnecessarily kill other people, or order them to be killed. We've just seen too much of it in Europe.
I don't wish to be controversial, but that is reasonable intolerance, imho. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| You almost have your finger on it - it's hard to tolerate those who unnecessarily kill other people, or order them to be killed. We've just seen too much of it in Europe. |
If that was the problem you should be for Bush's plan because Saddam Hussein also killed people unnecessarily. Though I do not believe that Bush's actions will solve anything, at least there is a chance that the condition in Iraq could be improved and that there will be fewer killings among the different ethnic groups. Doing nothing would also allow unnecessary killings to continue!!
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| I don't wish to be controversial, but that is reasonable intolerance, imho. |
I am not going to debate if this is an acceptable reason to be intolerant but I will say that it is not acceptable to portray this intolerance on average Americans who could not change American politics even if they wanted too!!! I am talking about American tourist and other Americans in Europe. It is like the people who say that they do not condone 9-11 but that think that America deserved it. The people in the World Trade Center did not deserve it. They were just ordinary people trying to make a living like you and I. These people had nothing to do with decision made in reguards to American foreign policy. It would have been one thing to try to kill Bush or attack an American military base but to kill innocent people is just wrong. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Ohhh, something unrelated!! Germans should not wear such tight jeans when they are in America. They might get harassed. This is not my personal opinion (I have only seen and heard it happen). I just know some German guys that got harassed at a bar for wearing tight jeans and they might have been those red ones that some Europeans wear!!! |
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poro
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| The people in the World Trade Center did not deserve it. |
No one said they did. But you're talking about 2.700 victims against hundreds of thousands.
No wonder people think. Please get a perspective. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| No one said they did. But you're talking about 2.700 victims against hundreds of thousands. |
I have met people who believe that the people in the World Trade center deserved it!!!
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| No wonder people think. Please get a perspective. |
What did you mean by this and if you want to talk about perspectives the only reason people are so focused on Iraq is that the media has focused their attention on it! Or maybe that was Schr�der in order to get elected!!I would never say the war is good(I am fully against it) but sometimes people (Europeans) are a little �bertrieben about this issue. 12,300 children a day die of hunger(according to the U.N.) but everyone is worried about Iraq. It is like what a German friend of mine told me after the tsunami that yes it was tragic but in Africa there are as many people dying. Why are we focusing all of the intention on these people, while there are people living under desperate conditions everday?
Another example that demonstrates that there are other problems in the world is that of today there were 1,584 coalition soldiers killed(according to CNN) and 15,000 Iraqis(I cannot find many sources on this). In 1997, the suicide rate in German was 13,8%, meaning that over 11,000 people killed themselves. Do you not find this to be a problem as well? here is another situation where many people die but everyone is all worried about Iraq.
I could probably find a few more situations and if you press me too, I will!!! The real point is that if you want to talk about perspective then you need to first think about how much of a grasp you have on the problems at hand or if you are just allowing the media to decide what is important for you. I imagine if I look for some more numbers there are as many people being killed in some African conflicts per year as in Iraq. |
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butterbrot
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Jzer,
Your harangue is specious. The U.S. government has been actively involved in the affairs of governments of many other sovereign nations for many, many years . They have been propping up, aiding and abetting, installing and replacing governments -- which they deemed were in the best interests of the U.S. -- in other countries for long before you were born. It's rather like the pot calling the kettle black.
To then say that citizens from other countries should not at least have an interest in and be able to express a VALID opinion of the U.S. government's inane (at best!) foreign relations policies is completely wrong-headed and damaging.
This comment from you in another thread was particularly weird!
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| I cannot stand those people. The Americans who go to Germany and just complain about Bush. I love Germany and stuff but that is just sacrilegious. |
"Sacrilegious" [sic] has to do with religion or a deity! Read the following definition:
"1 : a technical and not necessarily intrinsically outrageous violation (as improper reception of a sacrament ) of what is sacred because consecrated to God
2 : gross irreverence toward a hallowed person, place, or thing"
Bush is neither God nor is he 'sacred' nor is he 'hallowed'. My goodness but you have strange views on legitimate criticism of public officials! Your view of public officials as being somehow above criticism is even more unsettling.
I certainly hope you're not an English teacher here! As a roving ambassador for your country, you flunk. Poro's advice for you to "get a perspective" doesn't even half cover it. |
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poro
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| What did you mean by this and if you want to talk about perspectives the only reason people are so focused on Iraq is that the media has focused their attention on it! Or maybe that was Schr�der in order to get elected!! |
"A perspective" means that one listens to what the people want. That Schr�der did, and the Amigos in Bavaria didn't, is no surprise to me.
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| I would never say the war is good(I am fully against it) but sometimes people (Europeans) are a little �bertrieben about this issue. 12,300 children a day die of hunger(according to the U.N.) but everyone is worried about Iraq. It is like what a German friend of mine told me after the tsunami that yes it was tragic but in Africa there are as many people dying. Why are we focusing all of the intention on these people, while there are people living under desperate conditions everday? |
Because the bill for aggressive action in Iraq so far is something like $300 billion, which would solve ALL the water, food, and many other problems in the third world, if not in ALL the world.
The total bill for Defense expenditure is very close to 30% of federal income.
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| Another example that demonstrates that there are other problems in the world is that of today there were 1,584 coalition soldiers killed(according to CNN) and 15,000 Iraqis(I cannot find many sources on this). |
A British statistical survey puts post invasion Iraqi violent deaths at 100.000. This was prior to Fallujah. The survey was conducted by the respected medical journal "The Lancet", and in accordance with the same recognised statistical methods used in Bosnia and elsewhere.
Whatever you think, I don't believe that only 15.000 Iraqis have died since the Americans planted themselves there! |
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