Job Discussion Forums

[Scarred2]

As has been mentioned, ET is the largest school in Turkey � I think. It certainly seems to have the largest number of schools in Istanbul, so I presume it also has the most students. Why do you think this is? I think that it is fair to say that ET doesn�t employ the best teachers � that is not to say that they are the worst � so what attracts the students? The prices are similar to the other big schools. Is it marketing? Do Turkish students not really know the difference between a good school and an entertainment centre? Is ET a good school maligned by others (me!) just for the sake of it?

[31]

Firstly the teachers are only 1 variable in a student`s reasons for attending a language school. Others of course are price, location etc.
ET locations such as the Taksim branch are fantastic. The students love the location. You can get there easily from anywhere and after class you are right in the middle of everything. I suspect that many of the female weekend students choose to go to a language school like ET Taksim is so that they have an excuse to go out afterwards to the cinema, meet up with friends etc.
ET save an absolute fortune by paying hourly. Not paying social security and work permits too. It is really piece work like fruit pickers and Chinese cockle pickers get. They make a bomb on the course materials and the canteen workers are ferocious in getting money off everyone.
The sales and marketing team are the real power at ET and no prospective student is a match for them.
The students are led to believe that ET has schools in London and Toronto and are fed the line that by coming to ET they will be successful too.

But having worked in the service sector in the UK I can say is no better there. It is business and ET are doing great.

[molly farquharson]

I actually agree with 31 about the success of ET being largely its marketing, as far as getting the students in there is concerned. But I truly believe that the students keep coming because we offer them a good program. We are serious about what we offer, though it is a convoluted system we work within. I know people criticize ET and I know that there is room for criticism and for improvement. I know not all our teachers are stellar, but I think most of them are good competent teachers. You know a lot of times the students stay because of the teachers, and I think that speaks well of them. Teachers that are not good are often asked to leave during the probation period, which is why we have it. I am proud of our education system. We are always working to improve it and we are also working to help improve the teaching through professional development. We are sometimes hamstrung by the management, but that is because burasi turkiye. That is not peculiar to ET.

The sales team does an excellent job of selling to the students and we have a high advertising profile (seen our ET vans? oh my...) I know the sales team practices a kind of kandirma but from what I understand that is true at the other language schools too.

I know some of the other language schools trash talk us. But we are open and a lot of other schools have closed or are closing. You know we own Interlang (and now those teachers get paid regularly) and World of English. I don't think of the owner as ruthless and in fact he is a very nice man that I respect a lot. He has integrity even though he is a capitalist. He is also a very religious man, but he does not put it on anyone else (just in case you have heard the rumour that we are an Islamic organization-- not).

ET does not necessarily earn a fortune by paying hourly. I think teachers get paid more because they work more. It does ease the bookkeeping, because they don't have to mess around with prorating overtime or anything like that. As I said before, all languages schools who hire teachers on tourist visas do not get to claim them re taxes, so they actually lose money that way. That is something that the government has to work out.

I actually would like to see the language schools get along better, as there would be strength in unity, etc regarding issues like govt regulations for teachers. There's too much back-biting. It would also help professionalize the business, but I cynically don't think that is high on the agenda of most owners

I wonder what comments will follow...

[molly farquharson]

by the way, ET is not an entertainment center, though for many students it is a social center

[hobo]

Where can I get a job picking Chinese beep? Must be better than what I'm being paid at BIA.

[dmb]

I go for the marketing. It is quite ruthless. I'm not joking when I say that I am stopped EVERY day and offered English Lessons at ET.

[bron]

[31]

Interlang was a Micky Mouse Operation and that was why it failed and had to sell up.

It always told its employees that it was professional and that that was why it always paid them at below than average pay rates. Interlang always had a reputation as a poor payer.

When times were bad it declared its contracts as null and void and refused to honour them.

It pratted about trying to offer courses but couldn`t get the marketing right.

It used to pay its part time teachers at two and a half to three times the rate of its full time teachers because it needed the part timers at peak times. If you did overtime they kept the money and only paid you at the end of the contract WHEN INFLATION OF 80% PLUS ERODED MOST OF YOUR MONEY. If you complained you were told ''oh that is in the contract,'' or ''you need it at the end of your contract.''

It had a one eyed American perve as a DOS until he got sacked for getting death threats from the family of a young boy.

They had a clause in the contract that you had to sign to say that you mustn`t date the students but they turned a blind eye when they needed cheap teachers.

A teacher got sacked coz a DOS went round to one of the MFI furnished flats and found a spliff but.

RIP Interlang long live ET

[31]

Molly says:

''ET does not necessarily earn a fortune by paying hourly. I think teachers get paid more because they work more. It does ease the bookkeeping, because they don't have to mess around with prorating overtime or anything like that.''

Not true teachers only earn more if they do 30-40 hours a week which is only available form October to May and lose another month's money due to the religous and public holiday. If they fall out of favour or are ill of course this decreases the pay even further. An average teacher basically only gets 6 months pay a year.

ET does not pay hourly because everyone is illegal. ET could still pay a monthly salary to illegals. ET doesn`t pay hourly because of the ''difficulty'' of book keeping.

ET pays hourly for the simple reason that it is

CHEAPER

The meatpacking business in North America also hire illegals and pays hourly because it is cheaper. A recent Senate investigation into the business called an industry spokesman to account and he said:

''We (the business) have never seen a correlation between the pay and turnover of workers and profitability.''

No doubt it eases their book keeping too and it is the fault of the government for making it hard to get visas for Salvadoran meat packers.

[Faustino]

Bron: The only other comment I make is that I am getting so sick of "burasa T�rkiye." It's like, what, because this is Turkey nothing works? In what way does that make sense? Turks can't do this because they're stupid? Because they're lazy? Turks say this about *themselves.* It's like a national inferiority complex. This is Turkey, we're Turks, we all suck, so don't expect anything to be any better. It drives me nuts.

Faustino: ...and this is a baseball bat. Because this is a baseball bat in my hand I obviously have to bash you round the head with it. This is a baseball bat, all baseball bats are meant for smashing people's brains in, so don't expect anything to be better because you just informed me that 'burasi T�rkiye'.

Burasi 'my arse'.

Did anyone see the coverage of the football hooligans rioting, oops, sorry I meant to say the CHP party leadership contest this weekend? Why does Baykal even bother? I mean, what kind of egomaniac must he be to continue to lead what is, after all, Ataturk's party, in so piss-poor a manner and still expect people to follow him? This could be a very dangerous time for Turkey if this leads to a further fragmentation of the leftist parties. Islamist extremism, anyone?

[the pusherman]

Faustino,

maybe I'm being thick, but I don't quite follow your point about baseball bats. Can you enlighten me?

I certainly read with some fascination about the idiots in the CHP fighting each other, apparently unaware that the Ak party are laughing up their sleeves (if not out loud) at all this. If Baykal is useless, what do you think about Sarigul? I have to confess a large amount of ignorance on this topic.

[Scarred2]

Faustino,

I am with the pusherman on the baseball thing...sorry but lost me.

31,

Have to agree with you about the hourly wage thing, I believe that one of the first things ET did to Interlang was change the pay structure to hourly - I presume that this was not in order to make the accountants' life easier.

If you did overtime they kept the money and only paid you at the end of the contract WHEN INFLATION OF 80% PLUS ERODED MOST OF YOUR MONEY. If you complained you were told ''oh that is in the contract,'' or ''you need it at the end of your contract.''

Is that true? It seems unlikely as who would put up with that?

It had a one eyed American perve as a DOS until he got sacked for getting death threats from the family of a young boy.

Again where did you hear this from?

They had a clause in the contract that you had to sign to say that you mustn`t date the students but they turned a blind eye when they needed cheap teachers.

This is a standard clause, I am sure it is in your contract. It has been discussed that it is broken fairly often.

A teacher got sacked coz a DOS went round to one of the MFI furnished flats and found a spliff but.

Shurely that should be "butt", again seems pedantic, I am sure that this is not the whole truth.

RIP Interlang long live ET

It is strange that you are so loyal to ET. Molly has repeatedly stated on this site that she is far from pleased with your comments. You have criticised the management also. Why defend so vigorously a mediocre organisation?

[dmb]

Wouldn't it be funny if Brown hooked Blair in a Sarigul style?

[Faustino]

It seems that there is a general concensus that Sarigul is probably no better than Baykal, but Baykal's been going on for so long and with so little success (apart from a brief spell as PM in a mid-nineties coalition) that anyone is preferable.

[31]

Scarred

You only found 1 spelling mistake, I think that proves that I am getting better.

We have a teacher at ET who used to work for Interlang and he has told me all the goss. About the overtime it is correct. They had a system where teachers got a monthly salary for doing sth like 112 hours. They had to do some ovetime if it was needed and they got the extra money at the end of their contract. Although they were paid for meetings and workshops.

You say nobody would accept (got it right) it. I disagree with you because if you are new to tefl and have never worked abroad and have lived in the west you are probably fairly naiive. Also when inflation was high newbies did not know the effect (right again and I didn`t look in the dictionary) it would have on their money.

Also you wouldn`t think that real professional teachers would come all the way from USA etc. to work for an hourly wage on the strenth of an email but they do in droves.

Again I have it on authority about the one eyed perve.

Yes I criticise management as does Molly. Everyone does.

The spliff, again I have it on authority.

I don`t know where you work but are you worried that ET will buy out your place. Also you must have worked for us or you wouldn`t have such a problem with ET. Or are you just embarassed at the naked commercialism of it all?