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Is a Dip TEFL considered the equivalent of an MA?
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Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1216

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:08 pm    Post subject: Is a Dip TEFL considered the equivalent of an MA? Reply with quote

I'd be interested to hear if the two qualifications are considered as interchangeable, and if so, whether a Dip TEFL and 10 years' ELT experience would get a well-paying job in the UAE - in a decent institution.

I've spent time in the Middle East, and I'm relatively comfortable with the culture. I would only be looking for something for a couple of years or so, and I would welcome any comments or advice.

Many thanks!
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 16186
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, but no chance with the majority. The Middle East is one of the places that likes those academic pieces of paper. If they say that they want an MA, that is what they want. BUT... if your 10 years are teaching Academic English (preferably reading and writing) to Arabic speakers, you might want to send off your CV and see what happens.

There are a few places that hire BA plus cert teachers. For instance the Higher Colleges of Technology in the Emirates or Sultan Qaboos University in Oman. You would have more choices in Saudi Arabia.

VS
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Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1216

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks for your helpful advice. I appreciate it!
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turtlepi1



Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:

There are a few places that hire BA plus cert teachers. For instance the Higher Colleges of Technology in the Emirates
VS


This is true, but is likely (maybe) to become much less common.
HCT is having their programs accredited by the US next year and they will be forced to stay closer to their own guidelines for hiring.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 16186
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HCT has always hired BA + certs + experience for English teachers, so that would be following their guidelines. Other disciplines may have different requirements. (you are in IT, right?)

VS
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blues clues



Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:48 am    Post subject: MA and HCT Reply with quote

If this is true that HCT is so interested in MA's then why is it so many of their teachers have fake degree's or tell them MA is pending and are hired to work for them..I can't imagine they do background checks or there would be a few less "Phonies" working there. By the way, good for them! If they were able to secure a job without the proper credentials, hats of to them.
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turtlepi1



Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: MA and HCT Reply with quote

blues clues wrote:
If this is true that HCT is so interested in MA's then why is it so many of their teachers have fake degree's or tell them MA is pending and are hired to work for them..I can't imagine they do background checks or there would be a few less "Phonies" working there. By the way, good for them! If they were able to secure a job without the proper credentials, hats of to them.


A little bit bitter are we?

All I was pointing out (and I guess this being an ESL board I should have stuck to that faculty as VS pointed out) is that in the Faculty of IT hiring those with only a Bachelor's degree will be more difficult to hire because it won't only be HCT reviewing the information. They will undergo audits from the certifying body as well. I think..(a Bachelor degree can only teach CD, not HD (Higher Diploma) or Bachelor courses *at least on paper*.)

Will it change anything. I don't know. Do people have fake degrees? Maybe. When I was in Korea were there people with fake degrees...for sure. There was a huge incident at one of the universities just before I left. Japan, probably. Other schools in the Middle East? I would wager a bundle on it.

And a Master's in progress at least shows some initiative to get accepted in a program. Something some teachers I have met in my travels could use a bit of. Does a Masters make you a great teacher? Not in of itself, but a commitment to higher learning should be a prerequisite to all educators.

Don't get me ranting about the number of expat "teachers" that are in it for the money.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it appears that Blues Clues didn't read carefully as we were talking that HCT has NOT required MAs in English, though probably now most of the teachers have them or are working on them.

One thing I know is that HCT is the only job I ever had in the Middle East where they actually did check my credentials. They required written confirmation from the universities where I claimed degrees that didn't pass through my hands. Not just copies of pieces of paper that I could have created on my computer.

VS
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John M.



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:28 pm    Post subject: HCT Reply with quote

I've heard the same complaints time and time again about HCT. ARe they all that wonderful to work for? I possess a "legitimate" Master's., but haven't ever recieved so much as an email to say they'd received my application, much less an interview. I've also heard the same as B.C. Seems some people have been working on their degrees for as long as they've been working at HCT , say...uh, 3 years. Rolling Eyes
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veiledsentiments



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Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normally they are very good at sending you a response saying that they are not interested. Not that you ever actually learn why... and I know dozens of teachers with MAs and years of experience who never got any further than that. And dozens more that failed the interviews for usually obscure reasons. That has naturally led to a great deal of sour grapes from those who could never make the cut.

When I worked there a small minority had MAs in the English department. I understand that MAs are more common now, but still not required. You neither need one nor need to work on one to be a teacher there. It will get you slightly higher pay though.

Are they wonderful to work for? Depends on your point of view, capacity for bureaucracy and affection for meetings. I have to say that the group that I taught with in my time there was the most professional, hard-working, and helpful group of teachers that I ever worked with. I can not think of one of them that I wouldn't be happy to work with again. The teaching was great fun and rewarding in many ways, but the top heavy management structure did get on my nerves at bit.

As Middle East institutions they are still one of the best to work for, but I doubt that most think that they've died and gone to heaven. Those that are working on their second, third or tenth contract with them look at their savings account balance when they start to dwell on the negatives.

Vs
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blues clues



Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:37 am    Post subject: HCT Reply with quote

In fact ....YOU DO need a Masters to work at HCT. Still can't figure out how some people got in without one though? Rolling Eyes
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turtlepi1



Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: HCT Reply with quote

blues clues wrote:
In fact ....YOU DO need a Masters to work at HCT. Still can't figure out how some people got in without one though? Rolling Eyes


Well turn your eyes back down and I'll tell you. (at least in my case) Smile

I'm in the faculty of IT. I only have a Bachelor of Science in Computer Networking. I am currently enrolled in a Masters program at the University of British Columbia and will likely be on the 3 year plan myself after which I will do my Phd.

Why did they think I was qualified without a Masters? I have 7 years teaching experience at all skill levels in a Canadian college system. I also have plenty of industry experience working at all project levels, including a national e-learning initiative. Grunt to manager. I have Industry certifications ranging from Microsoft, Novell, COMPTIA, Cisco, etc.

But to be quite honest I think the place a lot of people fail in the application process is in selling themselves. Instead of being straight forward they create this "vision" of themselves. I really think HCT looks for people with skills they think will benefit the system then eliminate the people that come across with a lot of high level experience but HCT aren't sure if they have any ground experience...(the engineer who can't change a lightbulb syndrome.)

But I have only been here a month, so what the heck do I know? Smile
Other than from my own personal perspective it is a great place to work.
(Ask me in a couple of months when it isn't all new and maybe I will have a different opinion.)
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 16186
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Blues Clues, but you are wrong on this one. I just copied the below from the HCT employment website:

"We are looking for teachers with a first degree and an RSA Diploma or equivalent (Masters preferred), and at least 3 years EFL/ESL teaching experience, preferably to young adults."

This has been the same since the late 1980's. You do NOT need an MA to teach English. They have always preferred related experience to an MA

VS
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blues clues



Joined: 28 Jul 2004
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:03 pm    Post subject: HCt Reply with quote

You may be right, don't know really, however, TESOL Arabia conference had HCT over there, recruiting of course...the outline clearly stated Masters Degree necessary. I also know of many teachers with BEd.s who recieved responses from them saying they were looking for Masters and that they should consider working on it....they have many years experience and excellent references. Oh well, not the end of the world.. chillin'.
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dogzB



Joined: 23 Oct 2004
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:54 pm    Post subject: Dip or Master Reply with quote

The whole thing has got a bit heated!!! With a master you would probably start at a higher salary level than with a Dip. Again, the HCT exists (in theory) to provide more vocational type instruction than academic; therefore experience in a specific vocational area might be more useful than a Master with little experience. To teach on the higher level programmes a Master appears to be required - rumours say that this will soon become a minimum requirement for all tertiary level institutes in the UAE. Most of the people I know from HCT have or are working towards a Master and my friends ( at least!) have obtained them from fairly well-known universities. The Middle East is full of forged and false certificates - but then again, so is Europe..and the USA has universities set up to specifically serve certain countries of the world - so who knows what the real value of a Master or Doctorate is!!!!

Good luck Confused
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