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Z Visa issued in Country/Which provinces?
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Volodiya



Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to bother you again, ekirving, and thanks for taking the time to reply the first time. I still have some questions that may help (or may not, as the case may be) clarify the difference in result between your case and phillipl's case, if you'll indulge me a little further.

If you don't mind, could you tell us when your L visa was first issued; when it was extended, and at whose request; and, when you started work for your current employer?
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ekirving



Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 57
Location: Back Home :-(

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:48 am    Post subject: clarification Reply with quote

Volodiya wrote:
If you don't mind, could you tell us when your L visa was first issued; when it was extended, and at whose request; and, when you started work for your current employer?


Sure, that's not a problem.

I entered China in Jan '05 on a dual entry L visa issued in Oct '04.
I extended my L visa in Chengdu in Feb '04 (at my request).
I started working for my employer shortly afterward, and then had my work visa issued in March (at my school's request).

I trust that that's clear enough.
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Talkdoc



Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

latefordinner wrote:
Talkdoc:
Quote:
Liaoning Province - was not converting as of the time I left in August 2004

My F was converted to a Z in Liaoning last September, no problem.


Unfortunately, this exercise is now echoing the story of the three blind men who are each describing the elephant from a different perspective.

My guess is, for every eight people who claim conversion was impossible, there will be two who will report they had "no problem." Whether this speaks to enforcement differences across particular districts and cities or simply varying degrees of guanzi with the police, is anyone's guess.

I will say it again: if one enters China to teach on a Z-Visa, the question regarding enforcement discrepancies (regarding working with an F-Visa or in the case of conversion subsequent to employment) is entirely moot. Why risk it at all?

Doc
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ivytony



Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 153
Location: Dave's Cafe, where else?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a candian guy I know got a Foreign Expert Certificate and he doesn't need to get Z visa or visa extension.
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Volodiya



Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talkdoc wrote,

Quote:
My guess is, for every eight people who claim conversion was impossible, there will be two who will report they had "no problem." Whether this speaks to enforcement differences across particular districts and cities or simply varying degrees of guanzi with the police, is anyone's guess.


Talkdoc is right, but we don't have enough responses to this thread to know what's happening in each of the provinces. (Only nine provinces, out of twenty-two, have been reported here- in most cases, by a single respondent.)

Undoubtedly, exceptions will continue to occur; but that's how they must be viewed- as exceptions- until there are further developments. (Since we started this thread, our administrator here managed to get an F converted to a Z, but was told, "This is absolutely the last time we're doing this for you. You know the rules have changed.")

Even while enforcing new policies, the government can allow exceptions, without destroying the progress towards uniformity across the country.
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no_exit



Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 565
Location: Kunming

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll confirm about Yunnan. The PSB won't convert grant in-country conversion to Z visas here anymore, starting Jan. 1st of this year. This is coming from the waiban of the Yunnan Science and Technology University, as well as a private English school which employs a friend of mine and is making him go to Chiang Mai to process his Z visa.
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ekirving



Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 57
Location: Back Home :-(

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talkdoc wrote:
I will say it again: if one enters China to teach on a Z-Visa, the question regarding enforcement discrepancies (regarding working with an F-Visa or in the case of conversion subsequent to employment) is entirely moot. Why risk it at all?


I'd suggest that the usefulness of this thread is not for those sitting at home considering working in China, but rather, for those teachers already in the country on an L visa who are assessing their (technically illegal) options.
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Volodiya



Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there

PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:36 am    Post subject: Residency permit Reply with quote

I've been in China over a year, and when my Z visa neared its expiration, recently, a residence permit stamp was placed in my passport, as I'd expected. But, when I hear of others' experiences, like ekirving, who got a residence permit on the strength of an L visa, I find myself at risk of growing more perplexed. Somehow, the old system, with Z visas, brown books and green books seemed somehow less ambiguous than this is proving to be.

As for the potential usefulness of sharing our collective experiences, as they say, "Forewarned is forearmed." If a prospective employer assures you he'll have no trouble getting your visa converted, perhaps you can ask for a term in your contract requiring him to pay your travel expenses if it turns out you have to leave the country to get the proper documentation.


Last edited by Volodiya on Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:06 am; edited 6 times in total
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Nauczyciel



Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 319
Location: www.commonwealth.pl

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This new regulation seems strictly enforced in HUNAN. I arrived on L visa becasue I had ben told by the school that converting L into Z is "no problem". After a month of medical tests, taking photos, copying passport pages etc. it turned out that the local PSB cannot handle this issue any longer, so I was sent to Hong Kong earlier this week to apply for a Z visa there. It took three hours and was free of charge.
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Volodiya



Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there

PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nauczyciel,

Was it a Z visa, or a "residence permit for foreigners" that they put in your passport? (I know you said "Z visa": I'm just trying to clarify, for myself and others, some of these reports, so that we end up with a coherent body of information, if we can.)

If it was Z visa they put in your passport, has your school said anything about any additional processing with the local PSB that you'll have to do?


Last edited by Volodiya on Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nauczyciel



Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 319
Location: www.commonwealth.pl

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is Z-visa, yes. Now my school has 30 days to get residence permit for me from the local PSB. Z-visa in itself says nothing about the duration of my stay - this is where the residence permit is key. But to get one you need to get a foreign expert certificate first. So, my Z-visa is just a beginning of the whole process of validating my staying here.
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Roger



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

News from the Guangdong PSB:\
Teachers already in the country and under contract can have it renewed;

- they will be issued a residence permit stuck into their passport; no more residence permit and separate work visa. The residence permit will be multiple entry and cost around 400 for one year.

This does not answer the question: do newly arriving job seekers get their work visa in the country...

Another change that has come into effect: the employers are no longer entitled to make the decision whether you are suitably qualified; this decision has had to be deferred to a new bureau that supposedly deals with applications from the whole of Guangzhou or even Guangdong.
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Volodiya



Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 1025
Location: Somewhere, out there

PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Nauczyciel, for the clarification of what occured when you went abroad.
______________

"Small dog" had also provided this site in one of his posts, some months back-

http://www.speedbusiness.com.cn/residence-permit.htm

It feels odd to me, not to have a visa anymore. I now have only a residence permit for foreigners (a stamp in my passport). I have no visa for China, but I'm told I can come and go, as I please, within the period of validity of the residence permit (one year).
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dyslexic_dcuk



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 7
Location: state of flux

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zhejiang Province. L to Z (well residence permit). Post Jan 1 2005. Short and factual and my experience only so make of it what you will.

Please note that past performance is no guarantee of future returns as the value of investments may go down as well as up..blah, blah, blah.
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nolefan



Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 1458
Location: on the run

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hebei province is a NO GO at the moment! If you've been in the country for a while, then it's not a problem. If you've just arrived on an L visa, then you will spend the next 6 months teaching on an F visa. Most officials are aware of this situation and they're ok with.

Your best bet is to get either a "Foreign Expert Certificate" or an "Alien Employement Permit" from the Foreign Affairs office of the city you're working in to complement your F visa and give you a higher degree of legitimacy.

There has been some reports that the problem is only limited to the bigger cities (Shijiazhuang, tangshan, handan, Chengde...) and that the smaller cities have yet to follow up.
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