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Questions About Khon Kaen
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Fud



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 27
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:05 pm    Post subject: Questions About Khon Kaen Reply with quote

Hey All,

I'm a CELTA certified teacher with a degree and about a year's experience. I've long wanted to go to Thailand, but never had much desire to live in Bangkok or Phuket. If I go, I want to live in the north--you know, so I can experience the "real" Thailand while learning Thai kickboxing and meditating in temples and whatnot.

But seriously, is anybody here in Khon Kaen? What is the salary range I should expect or negotiate for, given my background? The city and the region sound lovely, but my experience is in China and Spain, and I have no idea what the range of salary is compared to living expenses. I just want to be able to live comfortably and travel some, hopefully to Laos or Vietnam. The reason I ask is because I'm in talks with a school in Khon Kaen, and it sounds like a good deal, but then again, how would I know?

Thanks in advance!
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Kent F. Kruhoeffer



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2129
Location: 中国

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Fud

Never been there myself, but TEFL positions Upcountry generally pay between 20,000 and 35,000 Baht per month. With a CELTA and a BA you should be shooting for the upper regions of that range. On 30K or thereabouts, you should be able to live well enough and do the 'local' traveling you'd like to do.

It's only when you start buying airline tickets that the TEFL salaries don't cut it.

Here are a couple of websites with info on Khon Kaen and Isan:


http://www.khonkaen.com/ (KhonKaen.com)

http://thailand.sawadee.com/index.html (click on # 28 )

http://www.thaiworldview.com/tourism.htm (Discover Isan)

http://www.travelsolutions.co.th/isaan.htm (UpCountry Isan)


MuayThai in Thailand

http://www.wmtc.nu/ (World MuayThai Council)

http://www.ancientmuaythai.com/ (MuayThai Sangka)


~ more links on The Master Index + TEFL FAQ Thailand sticky @ the top of the forum
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Sheep-Goats



Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 527

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't been to Kong Kaen either.

Since you've taught before and seem to know something about Thailand, I'll assume you also know how hard it'll be to reliably study Muay Thai or meditate while teaching here? It's not impossible, but if you're doing either as more than a hobbyist you'll find that having a teaching job at the same time will cause you a lot of grief as far as your other interests go... Muay Thai lessons can be suprisingly expensive as well -- 400B for a half day is typical for places that deal in farang.

Doing either Muay Thai or meditation in Kong Kaen would also be quite hard without some decent Thai language ability for your part, I'd guess.

As for the salary issue, you should be able to dig up 30,000 in Kong Kaen, but it won't be a cakewalk to do that like it would in Bangkok. On 25,000 you'll be quite limited in your travel opportunities even in Thailand. On 30,000 you'll have enough to visit Laos and/or Cambodia sometime. Vietnam requires getting on an airplane, and that'll be prohibitively expensive for you -- but not impossible on 30,000 I suppose.

Living is cheap there, but at the end of the day 750USD a month is only 750USD a month. Like Kent said, your trip back to reality will usually start when you see all those zeros when you visit the ticket agent to try to fly home. Most teachers in Thailand say they try to save 10,000B a month, chiefly to pay for their flights, but on 25,000 you basically can't do that -- which means flights come out of your other-country savings.

Worth a shot anyway. Go to Kong Kaen and apply for jobs / call around once you're there.
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Fud



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 27
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SG,

I was being facetious about the studying Muay Thai and meditating--though both would be nice, if I went to Thailand I would want to focus on teaching and general living. I'm too lazy to be a kickboxer, really.

Thanks for your advice, though--you too, Kent. The reason I brought up Kong Kaen is because a friend of mine used to teach at a school there, and they were looking for a new teacher. He recommended me and I got in touch with them, but the mos def lowballed me on the salary offer, as last I checked, they were offering 21K. Which is just too low for somebody of my qualifications, apparently, even upcountry.

Not that I want to get rich or be extravagent, I just want to be able to survive on the local economy and travel a bit.

Looks like Thailand might have to wait a bit!
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Sheep-Goats



Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 527

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fud wrote:
He recommended me and I got in touch with them, but the mos def lowballed me on the salary offer, as last I checked, they were offering 21K.


If you were in the country I'd be willing to bet he'd have offered you 30. You really can't get a decent job in Thailand before your feet are on Thai soil, and, just as importantly, you have a Thai cell number.
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Kent F. Kruhoeffer



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2129
Location: 中国

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheep-Goats is right.


Please on The Master Index sticky post.

FAQ#6 explains why it's not so easy to get good offers from abroad. Wink
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Fud



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 27
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update!

According to my friend, 21K isn't really lowballing me. I think maybe because it's public/government school instead of a language center, and because it's in quite a poor region. I could still probably get more out of them, but then again, I have to remember I'm not in this entirely for the money. As long as I get enough to eat and have a few beers every few nights, I'm ok.

Something I've noticed when teaching in China and Spain while watching this board and talking to other teachers is this mentality that traveling abroad to teach should also include living like a king: Free accomodation, paid flight, high local salary, etc. Though I enjoy living like this--I mean,who wouldn't?--sometimes it pisses me off because if we were all working in our own countries, we would never expect free rent and such. It's like we get a taste of the good life abroad and never want to give it up...

...but that also means, In my view, sometimes having to completely sell out. If it came down to me having a choice between teaching in a public school for a lower pay or working at a money-grubbing language center and living like a king then, well, I'd probably take the public school. I definitely got more out of my work when I was teaching at a high school in China.

Where all have you taught in Thailand, and do you have similar thoughts about us Expatriate Kings?
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Kent F. Kruhoeffer



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2129
Location: 中国

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Fud:

I agree; money isn't everything.

Over the past 16 years in TEFL I've earned as little as $150 per month

to as much as $2,400 per month. Completely different experiences, to be sure!

On a personal note; my best memories have always been from

the countries where I earned the least $$$. Go figure.

Anyway - back to Thailand:

If an apartment is included in the deal, you can get by 'OK'

on 21,000 Baht per month net - and afford "a few cold beers" too.

You'd have roughly 700 Baht per day in your pocket, and

there are many days when I don't spend that much.

You'd probably pick up some privates as well.

Up to you.

If you're ready for a new adventure

(and want the added security of a pre-arranged contract) why not?

You definitely won't starve on 21K; average Thais get by on a lot less.

Or, you can take the advice in FAQ#6 and do your job-hunt

from here, walking away with 30 to 38K per month.

You have choices. Very Happy
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Fud



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 27
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I have no doubt that I could show up in one of the larger markets in Thailand, specifically the B-K (as the ganstas call it) and get a sweet gig. But it all comes down to whether I'd be satisfied with the job. I lived high on the hog in Shenzhen, China, but more than that, I think I need to experience something different than a big city. In my short 24 years I've lived in London , New York, south China (which is one teeming mass of cities), not to mention where I'm from, Washington, DC. It's time to see the countryside, methinks.

And besides, if I go live in a smaller city or the countryside of a country in southeast Asia, my chances of being taken in by a benevolent monk and getting all meta are much better...
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joe beets



Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loved Khon Kaen. The people there were insanely nice to me. I was making even less than you are being offered, but housing and food were always provided, sometimes whether I wanted it or not, so I had no money problems. I partook of plenty of the local entertainment, too. My hosts were constantly trying to hook me up with their available, unfailingly attractive friends. If that wasn't enough, there was a huge university right next door. The school was enjoying its first taste of native-speaker teacher, students and teachers alike. It was a sad day when I had to leave.
Go.

jb
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Fud



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 27
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're being wishy-washy about accomodation. If they gave me a place to stay, I'd easily chill out on 21K. My friend who lived there for two years said that's damn good for the region, and like I said, it shouldn't be all about the money.

I doubt it's going to happen though. They basically asked me, "Can you be here in two weeks?" which reminded me of something in my CELTA class where one of the tutors said as an ESL teacher, if you are serious about employment you should always be ready to jump on a plane.

Now this may be true, but there's just no way that I can go from being at the beach in Duck, North Carolina to being in SE Asia in two weeks. It's just too fast.

I guess I'm not a real ESL teacher. I am WAY too sadled down with the whole "planning and preparation" thing...

Thanks for the advice, though, Joe Beets.
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joe beets



Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so 2 wks is 2 soon. When can u go?

Sorry. Been text messaging all day. Anyway, I suggest you make them a semi-reasonable counter-offer. How good are you at bargaining? Thais love it. Play along. Decide when you can go and add at least 4 days to that date in your reply. Merde will happen.

Housing is not that huge of an xpense, so don't let that bug you. What/where is your school? How long of a commitment are they asking for? Do they clearly spell out your duties? How high is your tolerance of bad tv? Karaoke? Dining on insects?

Feel free to pm me if you have any other needs. Now get a move on!

jb
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Sheep-Goats



Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 527

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The provided housing they have for you up there is probably only worth 2 or 3kB a month. Rent is disproportionatly cheap in Thailand, and so a school that provides accomodation isn't really offering you that much extra. A school that'll pay for airfare is a much better (and rarer -- I don't think I've ever seen one) find.

Sounds like a great place to visit -- I worked with joebeets before and he's a level headed guy who knows his stuff.

But, honestly man, 21k sounds really low to me. I'm sure you could go there first and find at least 25k after no more than a week of looking around.
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Fud



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Posts: 27
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I told them if they give me till August I'll go--but two weeks is just too soon. I mean, I'd have to give my employer just that...and then what, get on a plane the next day? One day you're waiting tables at teh beach; the next you're on a 20 hour flight...

I still agree if I just showed up in Thailand I'd find a much better gig within a week...but like I said, I won't go unless it's a good situation. I would like to teach in a high school and not a language center, etc.

(BTW, where are all of you guys currently teaching? High school--is "government school" the correct term?--or a private facility? What kind of experiences have you had with either?)

Anyway, they've hinted they might pay for the flight. In that case, if they give me more than two weeks to get there, I'll go. Yeah, money isn't great, but if I could survive being dead broke in New York City, Thailand should be a breeze...with better food.
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Masterjazz



Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 50
Location: Dublin, Ireland

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khon kaen seems a beautiful place alright and the onlyplace i didnt get to visit when i was in Thailand (not working btw).

Its where id like to teach when i go in 4mths time...

id be very interested to hear how u get on

best of luck anyway
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