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Are any of these positions real positions?

 
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candykisk



Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:15 am    Post subject: Are any of these positions real positions? Reply with quote

I am interested in teaching English in China and I found some jobs, but I must admit that these seem sketchy... it asks me to send a copy of my passport, CV, degree, transcripts all immediately to some random e-mail address. Can I trust these e-mail addresses/websites? Some of them have no name of the college or university, and some of them have the name of a school that I cannot find a website for on google.

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bestteacher2012



Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's normal for employers or recruiters to ask for all these things. You are going to have to send these if you want a job in China.
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Son of Bud Powell



Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 175
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have been considering coming to China since you joined the forum in April 2011 (as your bio indicates) these things should come as no surprise.

As said before, the requests are normal.

You've given the recruiting agency quite a plug. Congrats.
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candykisk



Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay thanks y'all! I have decided to go ahead and apply and send my stuff.
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jimpellow



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 280

PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

candykisk wrote:
Okay thanks y'all! I have decided to go ahead and apply and send my stuff.


Oh, this is very bad advice. It may be normal for them to ask (as in Chinese society the employer has all the perceived power), but it is not at all wise to give. There are a ton of scams in China as you know. Identity theft is somewhere right up near the top.

You should inform them that you will send items like your passport once you have a more comfortable relationship. At the least you should blot out any information that could compromise your identity. If you broach the subject correctly, I think you will find the good employers will understand, and the scammers will go away and look for another naif.
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fchris171



Joined: 28 Mar 2015
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimpellow is totally correct, I'm amazed that any experienced teacher in China would ever say what the first few posters said.

Absolutely under no circumstances send your details or email/send copies to anyone until you're comfortable that you know who they are.

It would also advise not to send anything like this to an agency ever. You can send things like a resume, passport page to prove nationality (with any key info blocked out), but with regards to anything else inform them that you will exchange this with the school only (once you're sure who they are).

You'll find that once you start applying for things the emails from different random addresses will come flooding in. i was careful last year and I got about a hundred in a month. My rule of thumb was to delete any email that asked for my documents straight away.
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3701 W.119th



Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 238
Location: Wuxi, East China

PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Set up an email account and Skype id solely for use when job-hunting, and put this on your CV. These are the only contact details you need surely? The worst I've had is a bit of spam, but they aren't my primary accounts so it's not a big deal.

I wouldn't speculatively send my passport, CELTA, degree, CBC, reference letters scans, etc. to recruiters and your 163.coms anyway, but I'm quite happy to send these to universities (edu.cn email addresses) and the big chain mills.

I'm still not sure how people can use a passport page for identity theft? Not being a smartarse, I genuinely don't understand.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 6578
Location: Terra firma

PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3701 W.119th wrote:
I'm still not sure how people can use a passport page for identity theft?

Redacting info is pointless considering we always hand over our passports to some anonymous hotel/hostel employee for copying when traveling abroad.
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jimpellow



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 280

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
3701 W.119th wrote:
I'm still not sure how people can use a passport page for identity theft?

Redacting info is pointless considering we always hand over our passports to some anonymous hotel/hostel employee for copying when traveling abroad.


It is not pointless. You are absolutely correct in that there are risks in instances when you hand over information when traveling. But the risk is relatively lower than handing it over on the Internet to some alleged Chinese recruiting agency. The abuses are well documented and are growing. It is a game of Russian roulette to do so.

One can do some googling to learn the ins and outs of how the game is played with passport pages and such.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2957
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jim
There is a world of difference between broadcasting your details to anonymous netizens and letting a hotel see it.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 6578
Location: Terra firma

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimpellow wrote:
But the risk is relatively lower than handing it over on the Internet to some alleged Chinese recruiting agency.
....

The abuses are well documented and are growing. It is a game of Russian roulette to do so.

One can do some googling to learn the ins and outs of how the game is played with passport pages and such.

Most of the links on the Internet about "passport identity theft" are for companies selling their anti-fraud, security services to careless and/or paranoid travelers. But frankly, if you doubt the ethical behavior of a particular foreign agency, why bother emailing and providing any of your info to them in the first place?
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2957
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not about doubting ethical behaviour, it's about sensible prudence.
There may have been doubts about Bernie Madoff but he looked legit to quite a few people.
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3701 W.119th



Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 238
Location: Wuxi, East China

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a difference between sending all your docs to a badlyspeltschool@hotmail.com/163.com recruiter, and a university or private language centre.

Most legitimate employers will just ignore you if you don't send them the relevant docs.

If we're talking about 3rd party recruiters here, then sure, you shouldn't send them all your docs. But almost nobody uses freelance recruiters for a job in China. It's just not necessary.
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candykisk



Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for your help. Luckily, I have only sent my information to two people. I hope that I do not receive a flood of e-mails, and I hope that the job links are legit. So overall it seems like a bad idea.
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Son of Bud Powell



Joined: 04 Mar 2015
Posts: 175
Location: Since 2003

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fchris171 wrote:
Jimpellow is totally correct, I'm amazed that any experienced teacher in China would ever say what the first few posters said.



The OP asked nothing about the wisdom of sending out personal information to someone whom he doesn't know. He asked about the contract. Period. The OP didn't ask about that. Period.

To those who advise not to send out information to another until one feels comfortable with the person with whom he is dealing, I must ask this: At what point should one feel comfortable? After the the school rep/recruiter fills out a CFTU personal information form? After fifteen or twenty emails and Skype interviews? If one believes that he is dealing directly with a school, how many emails/phone calls/skype interviews should one engage in until he can feel comfortable with the person representing the school?

If one posts his name, photo, and resume on a public job board (the kind that headhunters don't have to pay to see) one should expect flakes and shysters to respond. That's a given.

When one asks questions about a contract, he has a reasonable expectation of a straightforward answer, not advice for which he did not ask. The supercilious admonishments about sending out information to strangers do nothing to answer the question, "How does this contract look?"


I wouldn't speculatively send my passport, CELTA, degree, CBC, reference letters scans, etc. to recruiters and your 163.coms anyway, but I'm quite happy to send these to universities (edu.cn email addresses) and the big chain mills.


People send out info directly to schools (or so they think they are) frequently. Is that more safe than sending it to a recruiter, considering the fact that many schools give the recruiter a school email address to give the appearance that the inquirer is dealing directly with the school?

If one does his homework before traveling halfway around the world, he'll get a pretty good idea of the legitimacy of the agent.
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