Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Facial hair

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Indonesia
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Salam



Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 135
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:53 pm    Post subject: Facial hair Reply with quote

I've seen a few advertisements for teachers that state men must have no facial hair. Does anyone know what this is all about/reasons?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
gugelhupf



Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 575
Location: Jabotabek

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did hear someone voicing the opinion recently that younger kids found men (and presumably women!) with full beards to be scary. Aside from that, I have known employers use a blanket rule about facial hair simply to avoid having to make decisions about what is a tidy beard/tache and what is unacceptable - such as 'designer' stubble.

Now I think about it, the vast majority of my Indonesian friends - pribumi and Chinese - are clean shaven, so maybe it is becoming more of a urban cultural norm here despite religious traditions to the contrary.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Salam



Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 135
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"despite religious traditions to the contrary"

Indeed, it is sunnah (highly recommended) for Muslim men to have beards. I was concerned the two were linked somehow (such as to discourage Muslim men from applying), but if it is a matter of presentation/appearance or intimidation of small children, I can see their point. Still though I wont be sacrificing my beliefs for a contract.

I agree with your observations though, a more "western/clean shaven" appearance is growing more dominant - especially amongst the younger generations. Sometimes I have to pause and chuckle, like when I saw full-on punks with black clothes, chains and dyed/gelled mohawks/spikes sitting down having some nasi goreng and a chat outside Plaza Senayan one late night in March.

A strange city to be sure, but one I love.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
gugelhupf



Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 575
Location: Jabotabek

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salam wrote:

A strange city to be sure, but one I love.


Now this is a weird thing... I moved down here just a couple of months ago expecting, at best, to tolerate Jakarta. I reasoned that on the salary here I could afford to escape at weekends when it all became too much. Recently though, I have developed an insane... well... liking for the place. Maybe it's the pollution getting into the brain?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cardinal Synn



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 586

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, me too. I just find myself grinning insanely at the madness of it all, every now and then! I love it, though the macet (traffic jams) does my head in.
On the beard front - most skools tolerate beards, as long as it's a real beard and not just stubble coz you couldn't be ersed to shave. Big scary muslim beards are unusual because Indonesian men aren't able to grow them - they tend to only manage bumfluff affairs dangling off their chins, at best, and because they aren't fasionable. The only guys I've known to have huge beards in Indonesia have been western converts. Understandably, they want to get right into the spirit of things. I don't think schools are trying to discourage Muslim men, they just don't find big ZZTop beards a very smart addition to the classroom. Indonesian business men don't wear them, Muslim or not, it's just not considered the right image. Teachers represent their schools, which are obviously businesses, and as such, they are expected to look like what people expect business people to look like. Shirt and tie, clean shaven etc. To think that it is some kind of anti Muslim thing, is just being paranoid. I mean this is Indonesia for goodness sake! A Mosque on every street corner.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Salam



Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 135
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol ZZTop beard. No I keep mine trimmed and neat. You're right about the bum-fluff most Indo men have. When I was in Aceh my beard was bigger and I think I got quite a few longing looks at it (sounds wierd doesn't it?).

As for discouarging Muslim men to apply with regard to clean shaven, I was just concerned if it was a christian school, they may not want Muslim teachers - westerners or not. Thought that perhaps it might have been the 'polite' way to discourage applications. If it's just an appearance issue then I have no problems with it, just thought I'd ask you guys on the ground at the moment if you had heard anything regarding this.

You know indos, rarely 'directly' say anything that might be considered offensive/delicate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Cardinal Synn



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 586

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah yes, see what you mean regarding Christian schools. Mind you, I wouldn't have thought it was much of an issue as I doubt they get that many applications from bule Muslims. Possible though - the discouragement bit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gugelhupf



Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 575
Location: Jabotabek

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of those 'Christian' schools you allude to are well scary!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Salam



Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 135
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol gugelhupf, in what way "well scary"?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Chester



Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 383
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, I feel you have visions of being some kind of �cat stevens� type prophet.
Preaching white dude with long beard stereo type.
Do you actually do anything, or just talk about it?

A Don Quixote for islam perhaps.

Maybe you are just a talker and not a do-er.
Salam�..�come on down�
The price is right.

and your avatar is appropriate
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
guruengerish



Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 424
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:11 pm    Post subject: beards dll Reply with quote

heh heh. I've been reading with interest the comment on beards. I have a short beard, which I trim regularly, as I don't want to trip over the durned thing!

I certainly hope I didn't scare any kids though. However, many's the time some young guy would whisper at me "what obat do you take for that nice beard pak?"

A lot of interesting answers crossed my mind, but mostly I told them that it just grew. Anyway, they wouldn't want a grey beard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Winmarr



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 115
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a short beard when I was working in Indo. It never posed a problem; nor did my long hair.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gugelhupf



Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 575
Location: Jabotabek

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winmarr wrote:
I had a short beard when I was working in Indo. It never posed a problem; nor did my long hair.


Yeah but you were working as a dancer in a hostess bar.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Winmarr



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 115
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh you saw me?! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Singkong



Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Sydney - leaving in late 2005 for Thailand

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indonesians are very big on being neat and tidy, and have specific ideas on what that means, so it's good to be have combed hair and polished black shoes... and clean-shaven would seem to fit too.

I can believe kids are frightened of them, at least till they get used to you. When I first went to Indo in '95, I had a bushy beard. I hadn't worked up the confidence to trim it, so it was... well let's just say that my friends described my appearance with words like "intifada" or "rabbi".

The kids in the family I stayed with told me later that when I arrived, 193 cm tall with bushy hair and a big bushy beard, they were afraid, until they got to know me.

I gave in to prodding and trimmed it. With typical Indonesian politeness and diplomacy, the girls in the family told me that I was now very handsome... but I would be even more handsome with no beard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Indonesia All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China