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SARS in Taiwan

 
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Jojo



Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 119
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:11 pm    Post subject: SARS in Taiwan Reply with quote

Howdy Taiwan Forum,

How is the SARS situation over in Taiwan these days? Getting worse or better in your area?

Jojo
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Okami



Joined: 25 Jan 2003
Posts: 121
Location: Sunny Sanxia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Supposedly it is going away. Personally I think they are underreporting it. They need to get it under control or be seen as doing so before the big computer show in September.

Besides this wouldn't be Taiwan's first cover up with SARS and anybody who has dealt with Taiwanese gov't. or businesses knows that credibility is not their strong suit. I say give it a month. Doctors are easily influenced here and have little in the way of professional ethics. The US's CDC and WHO will eventually pick up something if it starts spreading.

The summer season is almost here and this is the time that buxibans make all their profits, so they need it to seem like everything is under control and SARS is going away if they want to stay in business. If you think big business has corrupted US politics, than you haven't been reading enough news about Taiwan.

CYA
Okami
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Jojo



Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 119
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the synopsis my dear American friend! There is big news going on these days with Taiwan, Canada and China,, ya think we are in the middle of some Capitalism explosion or what? Shocked
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Okami



Joined: 25 Jan 2003
Posts: 121
Location: Sunny Sanxia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2003 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think we are in a capitalism explosion. Just Chinese people being Chinese.

Migratory labor is a common theme to countries going through the process of industrialization. Unsanitary conditions along with living literally a few meters away from a lot of farm animals has bred enough viruses from the Guangdong province. Epidemics, famines, natural disasters, and rebellions pretty much make up Chinese history and culture. I'm actually more scared of the doctors here than of SARS. Even supposedly westernized "foreign friendly" hospitals like Taiwan Adventist have a lot of bad stories and inept/unprofessional/corrupt doctors.

CYA
Okami
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Egas
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2003 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okami,

I went to doctors in taiwan several times and found it similar to western general medicine - soulless, mechanistic, fast. Power in the west has been tied up with medicine for centuries. They do the hard sell on themselves, and we all buy it. The truth is that medicine in the West is also appalling. It is corrupt to the hilt (dominated by pharmeceutical companies) and floundering under a faulty mechanistic interpretation of the body and health. 100 000 people die each year in American hospitals from faults within the sytem, such as doctor error, system failure, procedural problems. These stats have been public for some time, but no-one seems to be concerned. (see Larry Dossey, "The Science Blues" in Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine) July 2000. I'm not saying the system in Taiwan is without fault. I'm just saying the system in the West is in terrible condition also. But it is much easier for us to see the faults in others than in ourselves.
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Okami



Joined: 25 Jan 2003
Posts: 121
Location: Sunny Sanxia

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2003 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Egas

As much as I like to get into a whole round of how lousy Taiwan's medical system is against the US's. I'm not. This isn't part of the thread or even details what the thread is about. My comments are in relations to her question. If you want to debate Taiwan's health (s)care, then start a new topic or PM me.

Just because you had a good experience does not mean that my friends or I have had them. Are we going to get all folksy like American politicians and bring up Fred's or A-mei's trials and tribulations with health care? You want to debate with me, than don't go with your experience, go with respective policies and programs of US healthcare versus Taiwan's. Before you start please go to amcham.com.tw and read the 2003 White Paper about the pharmaceutical industry in Taiwan. Afterwards your comment:

Quote:
It is corrupt to the hilt (dominated by pharmeceutical companies)


Will look very silly when you describe the West's medical approach versus Taiwan's. You haven't seen corruption till you've studied Taiwan's healthcare management practices.

CYA
Okami
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EOD



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 167
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taiwan's healthcare system feeds on hypochondriacs and old people. You go to the doctor with a cold. You get a huge bag of medicine paid for by NHIC. Most of the medicine is placebo the rest antibiotics and maybe some steroids or whatever else the local pharmacutical companies are pushing that week.
There is no national retirement plan so the old people are forced to mooch off there children and become geriatric baby sitters. When they finally break down, they end up in the hospital.
Basically the national health insurance plan also stands in for a social security program. Go down to any hospital in the morning and have a look. You will see a hoard of old people trying not to get killed crossing the street on their way to collect their retirement benefits.
As far as hygiene goes, I have never seen a doctor in Taiwan wash his or her hands. They also donít wear gloves. I asked a doctor friend about this and she said that too much hygiene make deceases resistant to treatment. So if you are the last in line at the doctor, you get exposed to every ailment the hundreds of people before you left behind.
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Sunpower



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 256
Location: Taipei, TAIWAN

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shit, EOD, that sounds fucking awful.
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EOD



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 167
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2003 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
beep*, EOD, that sounds *beep* awful.

You think that sounds awful. Try dealing with it at a time when you are most vulnerable. When you are in serious need of medical attention and have no other choice. That is a fact of life here in Taiwan.
That is a just a glimpse of Taiwan's health care system problems.
Most people who live in Taiwan have no confidence in this governmentís ability to deal with SARS.
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Sunpower



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 256
Location: Taipei, TAIWAN

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear you, EOD.

I wasn't jerking your chain when I said what I said.

Sounds scarry.

In fact, I had to buy some antibiotics for a chest cold I've had for a few weeks now. I bought the same medicine two different times. Same name. But it looked different. One was really expensice and one was really cheap.

I thought one might be generic brand.

Anyways, after I read this, it crossed my mind that I may have been taking a placebo the first time and that's why it didn't work, cost less and had no identifiable markings of the name of the drug on the capusle.

Man, they even check my money here everytime I buy something.

So this whole counterfeit racket in China/Taiwan looks pretty common.

Yrs.
SP
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Jojo



Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 119
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pathetic, I would say. Is the SARS situation looking worse or better?
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chi-chi



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 127
Location: Back in Asia!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regardless of any health related concerns that people may have, in my experience there is not much work here right now. SARS+ Summer Break means that parents are keeping their kids at home.
Most jobs here pay by the hour, and are not "salaried." Of course there are some exceptions.
Just be warned that if you are paid by the hour, and students are dropping out and you lose classes, you lose money.
And you can lose a LOT of money.
I came here two months ago, it was really a crap time to come here.
More jobs. But will you be paid?
Chi-Chi
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Okami



Joined: 25 Jan 2003
Posts: 121
Location: Sunny Sanxia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is the SARS situation looking worse or better?


Honestly, nobody really knows. This is Taiwan, land of controlled media. I had a talk about it with my friend who owns a school and it has put a kink along with the worsening economy in his plans to open a 3rd anchingban.

We both know that we have to give Taiwanese a lot of room to screw things up because they will. There has already been one cover up. He agreed with my assessment that the powerful buxiban association put pressure on the gov't to get it under control or have the image of doing so. Schools can not afford to have a bad summer. I'm looking around and seeing a lot of open retail space that is for rent.

I think I'm going to follow his advice and see how summer plays out. Hopefully my back up plan/business starts being cash flow positive. My only problem is having a bad summer screw up my plans for a visit to the US in September.

CYA
Okami
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Jojo



Joined: 25 Mar 2003
Posts: 119
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okami: Hopefully SARS will die down by mid Aug and you can go on your trip to the US of A. I'm thinking of heading to Taiwan before China early August. Let's meet up? I'll need a tour guide. Wink

Jojo
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