Job Discussion Forums

[The K Dog]

Dear Readers,
I am about to finish a two-and-a-half-year-term as a teacher of English as a foreign language in Paris, and I have some thoughts that I would like to share with you if you're considering doing the same.
I never cease to be astounded by the hordes of naive Australians, Canadians and Americans who make enquiries regarding how to get EU passports so that they can teach English in Europe, particularly Paris, I am amazed at how unanalytical they are, and how overrated the whole experience really is. Do they think that they are going to walk into some Audrey Hepburn film as an EFL teacher in this city? Absolutely not. Here are some reasons to keep you away:
1. Language schools pay by the hour, so, how do you expect to earn a living wage during the months of August and July when most are on holiday, and French holidays are long, five weeks for many?
2. Apartments: Many require three to four months of rent up front, and let me tell you, if you're looking for an apartment in an environment where the people actually speak French, you're in for quite a shock, it's not unheard of for people to pay nearly 700 Euro for a coffin-sized studio with a miniature shower and its trickle of ice water, as well as the intermittent heating and inevitable mould.
3. Strikes: no shortage of these. As I write the SNCF is on strike and has been so for some time, blocking access to railway users, and if you're an EFL teacher you can't go to your classes, and you can't get paid. How ironic that unions were set up to help the working man and now the working man is being totally victimized by them. You'll see what I mean when you lose two to three days of pay or, if you were here in '95 you were incapable of getting paid for an entire month. Apparently some in the civil service think that getting paid the same salary every month, a decent salary I might add considering how low the qualifications are to be a conductor, having a shorter work week than the Americans, ample holidays, full medical coverage, early retirement. Please, do tell me how much you support the strikers from the wheel of your brand new Renault or Citroen, but when you can't get to work, it's a different story.
4. Bureaucracy: It's set up to make the least contributing members of the workforce feel productive. I don't know what it's like in the Czech Republic or China, but I am sure that France is up there. I tried six times to get the Carte de Sejour to which I am entitled as an EU citizen, but document A wasn't quite right, and document C the next time was lacking this, and everytime they would make up something new on the spot after waiting for over an hour and taking time off from work. The bureaucracy is legendary. How a society progressed this far with this system is beyond me. I like the straightforward way, not the "assign paper shuffling to member A, then rearrangement of paper shuffling to member B, etc." I'd hate to apply for a fishing licence in France.
5. Down with Britain, les sales Rosbifs! This seeming lack of an ability to remember how many Brits died fighting to help this country in both world wars. I can't stand hearing the Brit-bashing over and over again. I far prefer Anglo-Saxon society, and I am Irish by the way.
6. Down with USA! This delusion that they're experts on American culture and society because their McDonald's consumption is #2 in Europe. I find it funny how so many profess their hatred of America all the while lapping up its worst cultural exports, i.e., fast food, sitcoms, rap music, etc whereas these self-proclaimed intellectuals don't seem to have much of a grasp on Walt Whitman, Edgar Allen Poe, Lionel Trilling, John Steinbeck, nor do they have much use for American classical music, such as Charles Ives or Samuel Barber judging by concert sales from Eminem's last tour.
7. Sexual harassment of women takes place in Anglo-Saxon society, but it's not acceptable whereas in France every other women you meet has some tale of being groped, leered at or had obscene comments hurled at her. It's disgusting, not romantic.
8. Men wear Speedos to the beach. Can anything be more disgusting?
9. The streets: They look like uncleaned litterboxes. Civilized people clean up after their dogs.
10. Their television: Once again, the nation of intellectuals regales its citizens with the much watched scholarly fests entitled Loft Story, Nice People, Pop Stars and Star Academy.
11. Sexist advertising: Do car ads need to resemble Penthouse centerfolds to sell? I wonder.
12. They're right next door to Britain and yet you can't find Ribena, Crunchies, Flakes, etc anywhere.
13. Nasty weather. Ten months of Autumn and a sticky Summer for two months.
14. AZERTY keyboards.
15. Frequent use of the past tense when discussing culture and civilization.
16. There is a rising population of third world immigrants, many, but not all, I stress not all, are involved in crime, refuse to assimilate, and resent their adopted country, but drawing a correlation between their arrival and the rising crime rate, and the erosion of traditional French society is effectively proscribed by "speech codes." If you dare to speak out, you can be prosecuted for inciting "hate speech." Go hang out in Clichy one evening, and see how secure and accepted you feel.

Stay home, get a real teaching job back in the new world, enjoy your central heating, your hot water, your larger houses, swimming pools and save Paris for your Summer holidays. It's a fine place to visit filled with beautiful architecture and historical reminders of more fecund times, but it's not a place to live.

[andrew murphy]

I am sorry you have had such an unpleasant experience of France. I might also add that many Australians, like myself, have the good fortune I possessing EU citizenship as well. There are 'unanalytical' types to be found amongst all nationalities.

[rogan]

There are facts and there are also opinions which are presented as facts.

Items 1 - 4 affect everyone and are true for everyone - even the French

Item 5 I'm a Brit. I've lived here for 12 years and I have faced the occasional good natured tease about my nationality. But then my kids are in school here. I'm an active member of many associations. I'm known as a full participating member of the community.

Item 6 True in most countries. Criticising American attitudes is not the same as criticising all Americans. And after the "freedom fries" campaign who can blame them?

Item 7 None of the several hundred women that I know and meet professionally and socially has ever complained about sexual harassement. It is a "delit" here just as much as it is in the US and the UK

Item 8 Has to be in some parts of Paris. It's the same in some parts of Birmingham, Alabama and Birmingham UK.

Item 9 Are you the Style Guru who determines what is cool and what is not ?

Item 10 TV shows bought from the US and the UK. Not to my taste, but.........

Item 11 Style guru again ? Haven't too much of this, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Item 12 But if you know where to shop you can find Heinz Beans - if you want them. Why live in France and insist on English products? If it's such a big thing stay at home and eat your favourite things.

Item 13 Not where I live. If you don't like the weather go somewhere else. Maybe you'll have tornadoes or snowstorms.

Item 14 What's so great about QWERY boards? Are you not adaptable enough to change?

Item 15 ?????????????????, In French they say "Il est mort l'ann�e derniere" Present tense. Literal translation 'He is dead last year'

Item 16 Sounds just like the UK and the US.

It's a great shame that your 2 1/2 years have been so unpleasant - but I have the impression that you are probably at least partially responsible for that.

Au'voir. Bonne chance. Merci pour la visite. Rentrez bien chez toi !!!

[The K Dog]

Dear Rogan,
I will admit that many of the statements are based on opinion not fact. I tend to react very strongly when the multitude of frustrations which I haven't seen in any of the other continents in which I have lived surface here. One must keep in mind that Paris does benefit from positive advertising, and that the difficulties of living and working here are not fully expressed in many articles.
What I am trying to say is that I would not recommend Paris overall for the EFL profession, it is unstable in terms of wages whereas in other societies most people have a steady income, and Paris is far too expensive to sit around one's studio wondering if today will be the day when some students come around the school. Many of the EFL teachers I know here are married women whose husbands earn good and stable salaries and the women who teaches adds a little bit of extra money to the family, and in that situation it is fine, but for the single crowd it does not seem to be such a good idea. If one is in grad school here teaching English can be a decent side line, but to make it one's life work, i.e., for a single man or woman who wants to teach English for a living, I would not recommend it, it's far better for an American, say, to get a master's in the field, a job at a community college and come here during the Summer.
As for Brit bashing, well, perhaps I am overreacting to the desecration of the British cemetery and the sweeping generalizations I hear from supposedly educated people here, such as "the roast beefs have no culture," "I hate Britain," etc. Now, that does not represent all people here, but nonetheless it is easy to react when such utterances are made.
What I was saying about the lack of British products here is that it is merely surprising considering how close Britain is, personally, I can live without Heinz, but when you see the amount of American products available and consumed en masse, you wonder why British goods are so underrepresented, perhaps, more aggressive campaigning on the American part.
Speaking in the past tense about culture and civilization, well, I did learn to speak fluent French here, but the subject to which I refered was that of speaking of France's greatest achievements in terms of what took place two-hundred-years-ago rather than what is taking place today in philosophy, art, music, etc. I just don't understand why many French don't talk about these present day endeavours with the same fervour as the cultural achievements of centuries ago. Is not modern French architecture as grand as the French architecture of the past?
Personally I found the "freedom fries" campaign inane, and I think that it only represents the most inert of individuals in America. France is a sovereign nation and should not have to follow the dictates of George W. Bush, but it does wear on one, perhaps, to see day after day the graffiti in the less-than-exceptional metro of "mort aux Etats-Unis" or "Yankee, go home!" or the swastika with the equal sign next to the star of David. Just a bit disconcerting.
Speedos on the beach, oh, c'mon, one does not need to be a fashion Nazi, but it's 2003, and that's about as acceptable as a mullet hairdo and besides most French have a field day making fun of the tasteless tourists with the enormous cameras, Hawaiian shirts, black socks with sandals, etc, so I just think that many should take a look at themselves before they criticize the styles of others.
What I am trying to say, and, yes, I am guilty of sweeping generalizations is that Paris is an amazing city to visit, exquisitely beautiful, filled with stunning architecture and reminders of a glorious yet tumultuous past, but it is better to visit as a tourist than to stake out a life as an EFL teacher. For married women, it's an OK additional income and you can be flexible about hours which is good should you happen to have children, but for single men and women, it can be time away from working at a job which pays a decent wage, and some get used to mere survival, which is not a good thing by any means. To be a fifty-year-old man living in a chambre de bonne, not knowing your monthly salary, earning some months less than a dishwasher is not very uplifting. It's happened to some. That is why I am leaving.

[rogan]

K Dog

I agree - I wouldn't recommend working in Paris to anyone, especially not non EU citizens.

Conditions and salary are lousy

But I have a little trouble swallowing all your blanket generalisations.

With a variable salary you can't live in a swish 'quartier' so you find yourself living in some cit� where immigration and unemployment are high and education is limited.

Maybe if you had settled in Lyon or Bordeaux or Angers or Limoges life would have been different.

You chose to go to Paris and you found that it is not paradise.
Tant pis.
You learnt something - that the dream is not reality.

Is the American Dream reality for the majority of people in Detroit or Philadelphia or L.A. ???????????????

[naturegirl321]

Sorry that you had such a bad time in Paris. Why did you stay for so long if you didn't enjoy it? And why didn't you go to another city, I hear that the south of France is very nice.

[jsbankston]

So to sum up this thread, and indeed, most everything I've read on the France board--most people here say don't bother with Paris? That you can't find a decent job at decent pay? That living and working conditions are miserable and you have to be independently wealthy to survive there? That only a fool would waste his life doing this sort of thing?

Am I missing anything? Or are these just the observations of pessimists?

[fancynan]

I, too, read this thread, from over 3 years ago. What strikes me as ironic is that all the nay-sayers have lived there, some for a considerable amount of time. The OP had spent 2 years there! It took him/her 2 years to figure out they didn't like it? SO, if it was good enough for THEM to give it a go, why not others? Why did they not stay away if it is so awful? Most people, from tots on up, learn by making their own decisions and experiencing the consequences - good or bad.

You'll find many posters who will give plenty of unsolicited advice but few who actually answer the specific question asked. And most of the advice is to tell you not to take a chance, although I don't believe the posters followed the same advice - or they never would have had their experiences.

[michellem]

Living in France is wonderful, that is certain, but there are some things that your have to know before deciding to move.

1. If you do not have an EU passport or married to a French citizen it is almost impossible to get working papers.

2. If you do have working papers, you will need a full time permanent contract, be finished your trial period, and make minimum 3x the rent asked to rent an apartment in Paris and close banlieue. the average rent for a 20 m� unfurnished studio is 600 euros. There is a housing crisis and competition for housing is fierce.

These are just some things to consider before trying to come here to find work. It is worth it though.

M

[jsbankston]

If most English teachers in Paris are barely making enough to scrape by, then how do they manage to meet the 3 x rent monthly nut?

[Moore]

I lived in Paris for three years, and they were definitely some of my best years combined with some of my worst years:

On the down side there's the rudeness, the dogsh*t, the expense, the stressed metro-goers, the unfriendly people, and so on.

On the up-side there's one of the most beautiful cities in the world, the language which if not that useful is still great to speak and listen to, there's the food and wine, there are some of the world's best museums, and there's just the fact that the place is just such a romantic sort of place to live in or have lived in.

In terms of the person who wrote: "If most English teachers in Paris are barely making enough to scrape by, then how do they manage to meet the 3 x rent monthly nut?" ...that's a very good question: I was slowly slipping into quite heavy debt in Paris, and it was only my "good" fortune of being fired and getting a ton of "please-don't-set-the-unions-on-us" money which got me out of there. (I ended up in Spain, where I bank a lot more money every month and people are polite, friendly, very clean, relaxed, and so on... only thing is, this place is really ugly and un-sofisticated after living in Paris, though possibly a lot of places would seem like that)

[jsbankston]

A journalist friend in Paris says he doubts people who list rentals on craigslist and some other sites charge the 3x fees. And some people rent via th black market, though I would be unsure about doing that.

Do many people do the marriage route in order to get a passport? Does the government sniff out marriages of convenience? How long do you have to stay married?

And sa I asked elsewhere, would rooming with someone who's already established be the best way to go initially?

[28lbs]

I have lived in Paris for 7 months now and I have nothing but positive things to say about it. I am teaching (with Telelangue currently who seem ok) and earning just enough to get by and enjoy myself.

Paris is a lovely city - the sights, the food, the drink, the people, the multicultural environment - and can be enjoyed on any budget. We were lucky in finding a good flat (through a friend) and we live in the 11th which to me is one of the best areas of Paris.

I'm not rich and I'm not drinking champagne every night - but that's not what I came to Paris for. I came to Paris because I thought it was a wonderful city. I came to enjoy a different lifestyle, a more relaxed lifestyle and an interesting culture. I lived in London for 10 years previously, earned well and had a semi-stressful job. Now my job is not stressful and mostly I enjoy it as I get to meet lots of interesting French people. What more can you ask for?

You won't get rich teaching English in Paris (anywhere actually!) but I guarantee you will live in a nice city, meet interesting people and experience a different culture. That's what you move to another country for, right?

[jsbankston]

Well, as I posted elsewhere, the most I ever grossed in a year was $26,000, and the second highest-paying job paid much, much less than that.

Do you find that on what you make you can go to the museums and movies, buy books and so forth, go t6o the neighborhood cafe, or is it really tight?

When I visited my expatriate friend took me to a student bar run by a veteran of May '68. I felt like I'd been going there for years--very much at home.

One of my main disappointments with the trip is I didn't get any serious interaction time with the French. Sure, I spoke briefly with cabbies, waiters, and shop keepers, but I didn't get to know anybody, and I really wanted to, whereas the people I traveled with say they almost never have any contact with the natives of any place where they travel. But as I also said elsewhere, they think the worst thing about going to France is having to eat French food (!!!). They're totally afraid to touch the beef or poultry over there.

My other disappointment was I didn't relax nearly enough. I was running from one activity to another all the time, because I was afraid I'd never get to go back. But while I was there I wished I had time, say, to spend an entire afternoon people-watching in front of Notre-Dame, or devote several days apiece to really examine each wing of the Louvre. When I did slow down it was really, really good.

I mean, strange as it may sound, I eve got a charge just wandering the aisles at a Monoprix, just to see what a French supermarket was like. (I'd already become a regular patron of the 8 a Huit by my hotel.)