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Teaching 50 beginner kids
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jamieg



Joined: 13 Mar 2010
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:42 am    Post subject: Teaching 50 beginner kids Reply with quote

I've got a few classes of 50 beginner kids which is a bit of a new experience for me in that so far I've always worked with smaller groups of intermediates who are a bit older.

My first couple of lessons went pretty badly with the kids getting bored and restless. I had ended up lecturing a bit because I just wasn't prepared and I think they just got lost and confused with what was going on.
I had a talk to the TA and they just want me to go over the basics that they have already learnt using song and dance and games and stuff so does this mean that I am essentially there to keep them entertained using English?

I'm finding it hard getting into teaching the very basics where kids only know one or two words of language, but still need to be fully occupied and entertained all the time. I come from a relatively intellectual background so am always trying to get my students to think a bit outside the box rather than just saying or reading the obvious, but for the kids is it simply a case of throwing a ball to a kid and having them shout out a word they have just learnt while you run around like a children's TV presenter? To be honest, I think that's a rhetorical question because I think I already know the answer.

Has anyone else gone into teaching kids after doing more 'intellectual' stuff and found it difficult? I'm not sure I'm the jump up and down happy clappy kind of guy that is right for this job and I just need to hear some advice and opinions from others who have been in a similar position to keep me sane.

cheers
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CThomas



Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 380
Location: HCMC, Vietnam

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: Teaching 50 beginner kids Reply with quote

I started teaching first grade in Mexico after years of grad school, so I understand. Use your intellect to research children's minds -- how they learn, retain, and use knowledge. Then use acting skills to enact that research. Then use your intellect again to reflect on what you did and enhance your practice.

Note that children learn by what you, the teacher, does: they model what you're doing more than think at that age. So, you're teaching with your own state of being more than you are with words. That's the essence of acting -- a very cerebral practice. Study improv; use it to get the kids creating. You don't need to be a clown: you need to tap into and orchestrate their own curiousity and creative energy towards the end of learning.

You need to love and respect them. This is the truth of teaching little kids -- love and respect them and they will in turn love and respect you, themselves, and each other.

Lastly, tap into your inner kid. If you ever liked dinosaurs, whales, or robots, for example, now is a good time rediscover that childhood fascination.

One note: Your classes are way too large, by the way. One rant: you'd think that the CELTA schools here would offer the young learners cert here. Why they don't is a complete mystery to me.
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hot_rock



Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A strange post.

Of course you're right; teaching beginner kids (any kids for that matter) isn't the slightest bit "intellectually challenging", and yes, of course our job is to entertain them using English. Its the only way.

I have to ask, what did you expect?!

Furthermore, if you've got experience "teaching intermediates", whatever that means specifically, and you like the the fact that that's less brainless etc etc, why on earth did you apply for a job teaching beginner kids? And at a school that puts fifty in a class? It sounds horrendous for any teacher, especially the 'thinking man'!

What are your qualifications? I assume you've got a degree because you say you're from an academic background; and a CELTA too because of your concerns over "too much teacher talk". If that's the case, get yourself a decent job teaching adults or high-level teens, and stop wasting your time with this nonsense. And if you insist on sticking it out, don't complain when you can't draw upon Kant, Foucault and Baudellairre in the classroom. Get a grip.
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deadlift



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: Teaching 50 beginner kids Reply with quote

jamieg wrote:
I've got a few classes of 50 beginner kids which is a bit of a new experien
Has anyone else gone into teaching kids after doing more 'intellectual' stuff and found it difficult? I'm not sure I'm the jump up and down happy clappy kind of guy that is right for this job and I just need to hear some advice and opinions from others who have been in a similar position to keep me sane.


I taught kids in Korea, then adults at a university at home. When I came to Vietnam I got a job that required teaching kids on weekends, and I hated it. So I quit when I found a better job. I don't teach kids any more.

Hot rock's post is blunt, but true. If you don't like teaching kids, don't take jobs where it's a requirement. Especially at 50 per class.

Please tell us which school it is, so we know to avoid it.
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Buffalo Boy



Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take in colouring pictures, lots of colouring pictures.

I bet this class is dirt cheap. The parents put their kids in it to keep them out of their hair for an hour or two (As a parent myself, I can understand their reasoning completely). Make sure the kids mostly stay in the room and don't kill each other and your job is done. What more can they expect?

Start working on getting yourself a new job. Sounds like ACET would suit you. Good luck.
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Andy123



Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 206

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

50 children in one class? Really. If this is true you might want to check out some of the China forums were this is common. There are tricks.

Model/Choral is about all you can expect to do. Divide them up into teams and have a reward. Have them work against each other. The Art of War is a good reference for teaching.

Don't be afraid to make them stand up if they are not paying attention.

Lastly, your TA is there to assist you but often they believe their job is to work against you. Let's hope it is the former. Don't ask them for advice. If you need their advice, you should not be in the classroom.

Take charge or run.
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ajc19810



Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I teach kids and love it. Someone mentioned tapping into your inner child, that is truly great advice. Learning is suppose to be fun no matter what age, especially when students come to learn English. I'm a therapist and had the same problem, but now i embrace it.

Structure your class, but be flexible.
Don't be afraid not to speak.
Have a few breaks in class
Games, reward
group chorus work.
With children you need to activate their whole brain don't just focus on the cognitive side of things.
Use your TA effectively. Don't just let her sit on the side and be crowd control take advantage of the wonderful resource in your class.
Songs with actions.
Have realistic expectations. (This is crucial)
Don't be embarrassed

Finally, we all know that 50 kids is too much. So get that taken care of or leave. You will not enjoy a class that size.
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snollygoster



Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:45 am    Post subject: Class control Reply with quote

OK-This seems a mess-EDUTAINMENT.
There is an art to conducting kids classes. If you PM me, I will show you how to "Divide and conquer" your kids class.
You need to think like a kid to teach them, and know where their on and off switches are. Its not rocket science, but when you see how to do it, the penny drops and you will have well controlled, well behaved kids.
50 is a bit over the top.
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haller_79



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 145

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

50 beginner kids? You've been framed - get outta there.
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CThomas



Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 380
Location: HCMC, Vietnam

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pay attention and earn your bread, man. You're (We're) getting paid doctor money here for a reason.
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hot_rock



Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hardly doctor money
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haller_79



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 145

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Pay attention and earn your bread, man. You're (We're) getting paid doctor money here for a reason.


Oh man times certainly are changing - assuming you're not a school owner that is.
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:04 am    Post subject: Doctor money? Reply with quote

It may be more than doctor money, or less. In the old system, the doctors were not particularly well paid (or educated), according to my VN friends, and they often supplemented their incomes with persuasion money, tips to convince them to do a job. That practice may still be common, so, a bit of uncertainty on what their true incomes are .

This is a very interesting discussion on working with children in VN (or in other ESL settings). I hope you folks with a lot of experience in this field will add some detail. While many expats have superior English skills and are able to work with advanced students, the task of teaching (or managing) children seems to be a very different skill. I would like to hear more about this subject from those who are up to speed on it. I was asked to fill in on a few childrens classes and found some of them to be easy and fun, and some to be difficult in the extreme. I would like to understand more about how the VN manage this.

Do they take the least interested (or most difficult) students and bunch them in a group, or does a group all settle to the lowest common denominator?

In a very difficult situation, as the children speak very little English, is the true discipline instilled by the VN assistants?

Is discipline instilled at all, or are the children allowed to set the agenda? I was rather shocked at what I saw in one group, and found that other groups were quite nice.

Should the VN assistant interact closely with the foreign teacher, or is her (his) job to sit there and be quiet? Should she be considered part of the teaching job, and developed as an asset and a student at the same time?

Are the younger students displaying a lot less discipline than was the norm in years past?

What is expected class size? I cannot imagine a group of 50, especially if they were out of control.

If anyone knows of a major discussion of this subject in the past, perhaps they could link it. It would seem to be a common subject, but I rarely see it mentioned here.
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snollygoster



Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 478

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:48 am    Post subject: Kids Reply with quote

1. You dont need a TA if you know what you are doing
2. Learn the simple steps of Divide and Conquer
3. Be prepared to be something of an expert- Kids teachers are very special people and deserve more $s than teachers of adults
www.wiziq.com/online-class/129421-introduction-to-esl-teaching-class-room-control
This link shows how to conduct a kids class and is non-commercial.
If the link has been removed by the Dave police, PM me.
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mark_in_saigon



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:28 am    Post subject: THANKS, GOT IT! Reply with quote

got the link. Very interesting. I just started watching it, very unusual production. The gentleman seems very knowledgeable, but the production is kinda crazy. The first several units have this doubling of the voice, to the point of distraction, so I moved to the later units and he seemed to solve this at about number 5. So then, he is cruising along, and there is suddenly this weird movement of cloth or something behind him, after a moment or two, he turns his head and looks back, and when he does, he unblocks the view a bit, and there is a woman laying in bed, it is her that is moving the sheets or something, and then he turns back and you can no longer see her. He says he is in VN, talks about the cost of living and all. Sooooooooo funny. Not to denigrate his efforts or skills, looks like he is doing this for free, so I do applaud him for it, and he has a PhD so certainly he must know what he is up to, anyway, I just loved the little shot where his uhhhhhhhhh, assistant seems to be coming off of break time or something. Looks like he is teaching more than one message here, can't wait to see what develops.

Thanks for the way cool link.
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