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Cultural Extremes in Alexandria?
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stoth1972



Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 674
Location: Seattle, Washington

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same here, VS. Didn't get to the Pyramids at Giza until my last week in Cairo. Hey-you see them everyday!!! Having done the Nile cruise and visited Sakkara, I felt I had a good dose of ancient Egypt up to that point. I think if I came to Cairo as a tourist, I would not have liked it. I would expect it to be a lot like my visit to Istanbul-a lot of hassle.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 15938
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am an ancient history/archaeology nut... so it was a visit as a tourist that caused me to move there within the next year. Cool

VS
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stoth1972 wrote:
..... and ancient woman who never missed a prayer (when she was in our flat) was cheating us left, right, and centre. Left such a horrible taste in my mouth.

Unfortunately, this is the reality, some people they look from outside like doing prayers and so on, but in their daily life are 180 degrees opposite to their religion requirements. So, donít be surprised if an Egyptian (not all) swears that he is honest, but in reality he is cheating.
And, I think, the Islamic scholar Sheikh Mohamed Abdo (18th century), was right when he said: " I have seen Muslims without Islam in the Arab world, and seen Islam without Muslims in the West".
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Joined: 20 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Human nature... nothing to do with any race, nationality, or religion...

VS
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GlobalDawg



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:09 pm    Post subject: MHMinx--I'm Curious Reply with quote

Hi MadhouseMinx,

I'm curious as to why you are interested in getting a CELTA certification.

Please check your private messages.
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Joined: 20 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if she is still around, but I expect it is for the same reason that most people get one... because it is accepted by all employers, whereas many certificate programs are not.

VS
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GlobalDawg



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:42 am    Post subject: CELTA & Egyptian Salaries Reply with quote

We made contact via private message, VS.

Your point about CELTA certification very well may be the case. But, with her background she didn't need it, nor did she need the particular certification she acquired. Yet, the need for CELTA may be greater in Egypt. I've taught in four Middle Eastern countries and Korea; I've worked with only one colleague who has CELTA. It seems to be a highly over-rated certification.

On another note, can anyone tell me what is considered an average high-end salary in Egypt? Are there positions in which one can make 20,000 to 25,000 EGPs per month? This range may be laughable considering that the higher percentage of foreign teachers in the Middle East are Egyptians. However, I have been told that such a salary range is common among Western administrators in education. Is there any validity to this? What is the average salary for a college prof?

GD
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree totally that it is over-rated, but those that over-rate it are the employers... though not in Egypt so much as in the Gulf. Laughing

I have no idea on salaries for professors... does this mean that you have a PhD? The best pay at university level is at AUC if you have the credentials.

VS
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GlobalDawg



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:03 am    Post subject: CELTA & Salaries Reply with quote

Interesting that you suggest that the certification is in greater demand in
the Gulf. I was thinking that it is in greater demand in Egypt. As I indicated, I've only had one colleague that holds that certification in the Gulf.

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Joined: 20 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got the PM...

I was at AUC in Cairo and no one had the CELTA. It was something that I ran into in the Gulf because I taught with mostly Brits... and their attitude was that it was of much more value than an MA... but that was because they mostly had CELTAs and few had MAs. Cool

But I have already admitted to ignorance of the situation at the primary to secondary situation around the ME.

VS
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: CELTA & Egyptian Salaries Reply with quote

GlobalDawg wrote:
We made contact via private message, VS.

Your point about CELTA certification very well may be the case. But, with her background she didn't need it, nor did she need the particular certification she acquired. Yet, the need for CELTA may be greater in Egypt. I've taught in four Middle Eastern countries and Korea; I've worked with only one colleague who has CELTA. It seems to be a highly over-rated certification.

On another note, can anyone tell me what is considered an average high-end salary in Egypt? Are there positions in which one can make 20,000 to 25,000 EGPs per month? This range may be laughable considering that the higher percentage of foreign teachers in the Middle East are Egyptians. However, I have been told that such a salary range is common among Western administrators in education. Is there any validity to this? What is the average salary for a college prof?GD

Per capita income in Egypt is approximately between $1000 and $1500.
So, the best professors with a PhD in a government university will not exceed the equivalent of $1500, plus other miscellaneous income sources such as private supplementary tutoring. Even, the best of the best's professors in Egypt will not get the salary which you mentioned in your post, even in his dreams!! That's why most of the best Assistant/Associate/Professors go to the Middle East to improve their standard of living.
Also, I think, even in AUC, a normal professor with a PhD and long academic experience will not exceed the salary of EgP10000 Ė 13000. May be, the Western professor get more than EgP 13000.
I think the only people who can get the salary of more than EgP 15000 in AUC, are the Western Directors, Deans of Colleges, HOD, etc.
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GlobalDawg



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:09 am    Post subject: Egyptian Salaries Reply with quote

Thanks KC,

I appreciate the feedback. My thoughts are in line with the information you have provided.

GD
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Joined: 20 Feb 2003
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would not be accurate for AUC. In my last semester there in '01, I got more than 15000 EP per month with an MA (+ extensive ME experience)... I am away from my files so I can't recall the exact amount. In fact the US$ portion alone of my salary was appr 10,000 EP per month. And my EP salary paid all my rent for a flat with a Nile view in Zamalek, and all other expenses for a semester. (I was local hire, so didn't get housing or a ticket).

AUC pays their staff at levels very comparable to the US. The salary is paid partially in US$ directly deposited to a US account, which is a huge benefit. They also participate in the US Social Security system and TIAA-CREFF (not sure of exact name of that pension savings plan)

Professors in Egyptian universities are paid significantly less... a tiny fraction... There are some other private universities, but I have no idea of their salary scales.

VS
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stoth1972



Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 674
Location: Seattle, Washington

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VS, I've got a friend w/ an MA, and 2 years ESL experience. Firstly, where does AUC advertise for foreign hires? Would she expect to see an ESL position advertised, or something else(like English Composition Teacher)? 15,000 LE/month is quite decent, even w/o airfare and accommodation. Does AUC hesitate hiring 'younger' candidates (she's 26)?

As for CELTA, I think the preference came out of Europe, originally. When the British Council acknowledged Trinity College of London certificate in TESOL, Cambridege and Trinity became the two 'preferred' certs. Places like International House and the BC still tell people with Masters TESOL (from UK unis) that they want them to do the CELTA, regardless of the year-long ESL course they took during their undergrad. There were so many cowboy schools out there offering week-long courses, I think this was a way to ensure some quality out of teachers. Ultimately, you would think hiring institutions would be more concerned w/ how much observed teaching practice there was, but I suppose asking for a specific cert (or certs) makes it easier.
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Joined: 20 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stoth... I'd say that a young person with limited experience would have little chance at AUC. They don't hire many teachers each year and it is VERY competitive. They will only rarely hire their own MA graduates because they want and can get people with 10+ years. (they do have some MA students with many years of prior teaching overseas and often in the ME)

They almost never advertise their jobs anywhere other than on their website. The Freshman Writing Program also requires extensive related experience, and they prefer an MA more related to writing than EFL.

I don't recall seeing any teacher there who was younger than mid-30's - outside of a few MA Fellows. In another 10 years, your friend's chances will be improved!! Laughing

VS
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