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GabeKessel · Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 150

This is an interesting site:

Here are some Neo-Soviet propaganda articles about the US- sorry, they are in Russian. Propaganda in their case is obvious, it means exaggerating small things in the opponent and inflating them to look big and scary. while minimizing good things in the same. At the same time, one minimizes bad things about one's country and maximizes its good things. Simple. Hopefully, it helps to understand why some of the people you meet there have such a distorted picture of the country they have never been to. This is the stuff they have been fed for decades.

Look at the title page- This is the "Dark Side of America".

http://usatruth.by.ru/

"Life in America"- below, after the pictures of "living conditions in the US", you will see what they call "Leisure in America and other Western Countries". The one below that says "This is not Chechnya or Beirut but South Bronx".

http://usatruth.by.ru/amerikagallery.htm

Here is a potrait of what they call " American Occupiers in Russia". Yes, the US did support the White Army in 1917, but they were not occupiers- they were basically helping the Monarchists. This is not how they see it.

http://usatruth.by.ru/c4.files/1917russiagallery.htm

Here are some anti-American posters and it says below the headline: " some things do not lose their appropriateness even now".

"Behave Yourself!"

http://usatruth.by.ru/pics2/cold_war_sov23.jpg

We- (Soviets- European and Asian) turn deserts into a blooming country.

They ( Americans) turn cities and villages- into desert.

http://usatruth.by.ru/pics2/pic_341ee91beb6dccac1d4c363d62da246b.jpg

Here are some more:

http://usatruth.by.ru/c2.files/pjatyjletnijplan.jpg

It says:" Five Year Economic Plan"- the yellow industrialist represents America, and he says: "Fantasy, Delirium, Utopia".

"Helping the Starving the American Way".

http://usatruth.by.ru/c1.files/pic_f475de36d7aaeb289f01a683290f136c.jpg

An American being carried by his "slaves":

South Africa, Israel, Rhodesia, etc.

http://usatruth.by.ru/pics2/poster-12.jpg

This is how they see America:

http://usatruth.by.ru/c3.files/0320.jpg

http://usatruth.by.ru/pics2/210.jpg

It says "Business Built on Misery and Blood".

And on this one, the placard on the vulture says : "I am a Dove".

http://usatruth.by.ru/pics2/012.jpg

Here is the full list of propaganda posters.

http://usatruth.by.ru/sovpropaganda.htm

It is interesting to see the other side always.

Scott Denham · Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 8 Location: Utah, USA

Great post, although some of the links did not work because they were abbreviated with elipses (...)

GabeKessel · Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 150

Problem fixed.

coledavis · Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 1838

In Britain, we have some cartoons about George Bush, gas-guzzling and religious maniacs. We call it satire rather than propaganda.

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

Thank you for the propoganda Gabekessel (and the definition). As you rightly say:

coledavis · Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 1838

Sorry, I was just having a little fun. Those cartoons are more scurrilous.

GabeKessel · Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 150

Well, the White Army was obviously quite happy that the US was helping them.

And on another note, while the propaganda articles talk about the US intervention, they conveniently omit that their own country did the same-in Afghanistan, Czechoslovakia, Hungary; not to mention annexing countries such as Chechnya, kicking out Circassians from their lands so that Russia could have Sochi, occupying Muslim countries of Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and other 'Stans' and incorporating them into USSR because of their own 'Manifest Destiny' doctrine and numerous other forays into foreign lands which are now part of the Russian Federation. I admit that 'et tu quoque" may not be a good logical argument, but while the Americans often repent about their past deeds and question them, the Russians have very few qualms or even mention about how much suffering, occupation and intervention their own country has effectuated upon millions of people who had never asked them to come. No guilt, no remorse, no apology. Sounds familiar? Kind of like Japan. That is why most former Soviet republics hate Russia with passion. Just like so many Asian countries hate Japan.

The South Bronx pictures are genuine, but why not show West Hollywood just for balance? Or some normal middle class US neighborhood?

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

The USSR only ever occupied countries with whom it, or a country it had already occupied, shared a border. Most of the "stans" you mentioned had been part of the Russian Empire since the days of the Tsar. Yes that Tsar, the US supported scumbag the defence of whom was the pretence for the dispatch of US troops in an attempt to thwart the will of the Russian people - who, it must be added in the interests of historical accuracy, gave said US troops a right good kicking.

I'm not sure quite which borders the good ol' USofArse shares/shared with Panama, Grenada, South Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq....

Like it or lump it, while some people resent Russia because of its past, and many asian people mistrust and fear Japan, there is no country on this planet that generates a tiny proportion of the loathing as does the good ol' USA; and no country with anything like the dismal record of attempted, mostly failed, interventions into the affairs of other sovereign nations.

Your crude attempts at propaganda notwithstanding it is not Russia or Japan that the world most fears and mistrusts but the US; rightly so given its abysmal record of foreign invasions and occupations in the last 50 yrs.

Scott Denham · Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 8 Location: Utah, USA

Grow up. The OP was just posting some interesting posters that I find sometimes shocking, sometimes hilarious, sometimes truthful, and sometimes innane. We all know a lot of people hate the US and some hate Russia, but I don't thing anything the OP said warranted such a discussion. If you have something constructive to say about the nature of Russian propaganda, then that would be great, but if you're just going to US bash (justified or not) you should find one of the thousands of political boards on the net and not one devoted to ESL and the discussion of the cultures in which ESL takes place.

jpvanderwerf2001 · Joined: 02 Oct 2003 Posts: 1117 Location: New York

I would just like to say thank you for that post, Scott Denham.

GabeKessel · Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 150

coledavis · Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 1838

Whoops, I'm sorry I helped to stir things up. With regard to Russian conquests: I think one can reconcile the two opposing points of view. A lot of the Russian invasions to the west and south belonged to a kill or be killed strategy; the Swedes and Poles are obvious examples. The colonisation of Siberia and the Far East were akin to the American 'manifest destiny' even if the migrations had different spurs. The post WW2 sway in central Europe, although over the top, was understandable: many of the occupied nations had joined Hitler's invasion of Russia. On the other hand, the Russians have committed atrocities - still are doing so in Chechnya - and their government (of whatever stripe) has never been particularly attuned to the sensitivity of conquered nations. Ordinary Russians, as with the citizens of other countries, have differing feelings about their country as culprit or saviour. The latter does tend to be a virulent idea in Russia.

Americans. Apologetic? I think this rare and usually only when they have been hurt politically. At the same time, although they have done many deeply cynical things, their actions aren't all inexplicable, let alone evil. I would say misguided would be a better description. I think that the name-calling by one respondent was a bit unnecessary.

GabeKessel · Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 150

In relative terms Americans are much more apologetic than the Russians.
One only needs to watch a few movies condemning the war in VN, showing an ugly white racist turturing a black man who is usually shown as gentle and polite, showing the Japanese Americans being interned and clearly being portrayed as innocent victims, and listen to todays' modern politically correct talk. The US gov't has Affirmative Action, brings children of GIs from VN, pays compensation to Japanese Americans, gives American Indians special stipends, etcetera. The mood is often to correct past wrongs, to reconciliate with the ugly past, etc. Not all Americans are like that, but the ones who are not are often labeled "rednecks", "bigots", "lowlives", "racists", etc.

Nothing like that is happening in Russia. If anything, the government is becoming less apologetic ( if it was ever apologetic at all) and more reactionary, and an average person will almost never feel guilty or be politically correct. If anything, the new mood is to get rid of people who are different and make the country "great" again. For the Russian nation, that is.

BTW, A Chinese-American friend of mind recently returned from there and he said that in Moscow quite a few real estate agencies now have a policy not to rent to non-white people. And not many gov't organs will help you if you file a complaint.

coledavis · Joined: 21 Jun 2003 Posts: 1838

I concede your point with regards to the attitude of the two countries, Gabekessel. As far as which foreign policy is the most harmful, I think there's still a debate.

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

Double post.