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A list... countries to teach with no degree:
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leeroy



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 777
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 5:52 pm    Post subject: A list... countries to teach with no degree: Reply with quote

I'm surprised no-one thought of this before, really, considering how many times the question is asked.

Countries (I am aware of) where a first degree is not a visa requirement and a TEFL market exists...

* All of EU (But will need EU citizenship)
* China
* Brazil
* Indonesia
* Mexico
* Russia
* Venezuela
* Colombia
* Vietnam
* Ecuador

Please correct me if there are any mistakes, or any more countries to add... Smile[/list]
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PanamaTeacher



Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 278
Location: Panama

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leeroy

What I would like is a statistical breakdown of the improvement made by students who have teachers with no/low quals vs those with qualified or degreed teachers.

Based on your premise, This is how I should think:

I have pulled my own teeth out of my mouth. I think I'll go to * All of EU (But will need EU citizenship) * China * Brazil * Indonesia * Mexico * Russia * Venezuela * Colombia * Vietnam * Ecuador and be a dentist.

Post something useful, like where students in the above countries can find teachers that know what the heck they are doing.
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dorum



Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 35
Location: China

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A degree is not the only (or, in fact, THE) way to learn how to teach... My degree is not at all useful in any way to my teaching - my teaching cert. is quite useful, though.....

As if a degree teaches you anything Rolling Eyes
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PanamaTeacher



Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 278
Location: Panama

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh Dorum--come on, be real; a degree teaches you how to use your brain and it shows the world that you have the foresight and determination to do something the benefits of which may not be readily apparent to you.

Based on your argument, why ever go to school for anything.

Listen, sit at a table and think about all that education has done for you, the inside of you. Do you honestly (all being cool and talking BS aside) opine that your education was a waste.

Would you prefer a doctor, engineer, judge, president, etc. with no education? The only smart thing I did in my life was not quitting college even when times were hard. If you are unhappy about your education the best remedy is: get more.

Now once you get a degree you have to get experience to go with it. I think that to get experience without the theoritical underpinnings that college gives you is OK too, but you find yourself re-inventing the wheel.

OK that's enough on this
BYE Smile
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C76



Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 113
Location: somewhere between beauty and truth...in Toronto. ;)

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

leeroy,

Did you set up this thread with earnest intentions? Confused

I just blasted PT for setting up another thread with a similar premise. 'Cept I thought that one was created in jest.
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PanamaTeacher



Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 278
Location: Panama

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C--u no i am not serious about nada except dogmeat--yum yum Wink
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leeroy



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 777
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, my intentions are completely honest!

By making this list I'm not saying "It's OK/Not OK" to teach without a degree, I'm merely trying to share information that is often requested.

Smile
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PanamaTeacher



Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 278
Location: Panama

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well leeroy is it ok or not ok

I say it is ok depends
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leeroy



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 777
Location: London UK

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:49 pm    Post subject: ok or not? Reply with quote

Yep, I say it depends too.

I spent a long time creating a well-worded super-intelligent reply, which not only concluded the "degree or not" debate for all time, but also solved most of humanity's problems, including war, religion, and globalisation.

The internet disagreed, however, and the whole thing was lost forever. Sod it, can't be bothered to do another one... Smile
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PanamaTeacher



Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 278
Location: Panama

PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

darn net
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9014
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

China, you do need a degree or a lot of experience and a Cert.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12873
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 2:41 am    Post subject: To a degree Reply with quote

Regarding what a degree can " teach you " ( well, actually nothing, of course; it's not the degree, it's what you learn on the way to getting it that matters ), the answers:

1. a lot
2. nothing

( Don't you hate multiple-choice questions? )

That's because it all depends on the individual, of course. The old axiom: " You can lead a horse to water, etc. "
comes to mind. I've know those with advanced degrees who were terrible teachers and those without who were great. However, that being said, such examples were the exceptions, rather than the rule. What a person gets from education depends on what he/she brings to it. Yet another axiom ( one of my favorites ):
" He/she who would discover the gold of the Indies must take the gold of the Indies with him/her. "
Degrees don't automatically make good teachers, but they certainly help make good teachers even better ones.
Regards,
John
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm surprised no-one thought of this before, really, considering how many times the question is asked.

Countries (I am aware of) where a first degree is not a visa requirement and a TEFL market exists...

* All of EU (But will need EU citizenship)
* China
* Brazil
* Indonesia
* Mexico
* Russia
* Venezuela
* Colombia
* Vietnam
* Ecuador

Please correct me if there are any mistakes, or any more countries to add



Depends on what nationality you are, too, as your first notation shows. This makes it very hard to list "correct" answers.

For example, in Japan, you may ( stress the word "may") not need a degree for a teaching job...

1. if you are from Canada, Britain, Australia, New Zealand, France, Germany or Korea, and if you meet the specific requirements for a working holiday visa (limited age group, limited length which varies with country)

2. and if your employer is other than a university, high school, kindergarten, or elementary school.

Other options for non-degreed people in Japan include part-time work on a student visa, or any work where they feel you are qualified with your spouse visa, both regardless of nationality.

So, you can see, your simple question is a real can of immigration worms.
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dandan



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 183
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 5:50 am    Post subject: degree Reply with quote

I'm always rather amused by the doctor analogy. "Would I want a doctor who was educated?" Kinda depends what he was educated in I guess.

Here's my list of people I would turn to if I was in need of urgent medical attention in order of preference, depending on their availability in the community I found myself in and whether I could afford them.

1) A Doctor of medicine. (Of course with a specialisation in my particular injury and many years of experience if possible)

2) A trained, experienced nurse.

3) A junior nurse.

4) A bloke with a first-aid certificate.

5) A bloke who looks like he's got a bit of common sense.

6) A bloke with a degree.

(And of course we all know the nurse is probably gonna cut it better than the doctor with most day to day injuries)
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dandan



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 183
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2003 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may possibly be able to draw some analogies with tefl teaching here (but only if you're well educated, of course).
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