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Timing and placement for the best jobs

 
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RachelA_Broad



Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 21
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:26 pm    Post subject: Timing and placement for the best jobs Reply with quote

Hey guys!
I feel like I come up with a new question every day but there are so many answers out there that most of them are answered before I even get to this stage. Thanks!

Anyway, I am looking for some advice on the best place to go and when is best to do it after my CELTA...and now for my credentials:

I'm a 23 year old woman
Have a BA in Economics (and honestly wouldn't be opposed to landing myself in a position to both teach English and maybe some econ as well)

I tutored and taught supplental classes (kind of like a TA) for three years in college economics.

I have spent 4 months in Western Kenya studying abroad (two months traveling and doing independant study so I am somewhat savvy to dealing with being alone as a woman...enough to know to do my research on the customs and to ask if any of you all have any advice specific to Asia/Vietnam I would appreciate it.)

I am about to take the CELTA in November and I am thinking Madrid but I'm really flexible on the location. I mostly would like to find the cheapest way to take the CELTA and Madrid seems to be down there.

I am a U.S. citizen

What I want in a teaching location:
I was really able to get into the culture and made many friends in Kenya. I thought it was facinating and it is the reason I want the chance to live abroad again. It was tough because a lot of people wanted to be my friend because they thought that the mazungu friend automatically came with money trees. Overall, though, I want to get the chance to learn about a completely new perspective on life and be let in to the culture to some extent. I also want to feel reasonably safe and get the chance to take on a new language (I've always wanted to become bilingual but never really gotten there)..oh, and it would be nice to be able to pay my bills and save a bit but I don't have any school loans which is definately a beautiful thing. Very Happy
I've been thinking Vietnam but I'm pretty much open to anywhere..I do have a strong preferance to warm.

So here are a couple of questions that I haven't been able to resolve.

1. I know that I can't get a work visa in the EU and was thinking I would go to Spain for the CELTA so I could see some of W. Europe since I won't be able to legally work there. Is there a big benifit to doing the CELTA in a place where you will ultimately want to apply for work or does it not matter that much?

2. I will be done with the CELTA at the end of November. I have been thinking about going to Vietnam to try to find my first job (even though and kind of because I have heard that the students are very demanding) when is the best time to be looking for teaching jobs in Asia/Vietnam?

3. Would you all advise me to just show up in Asia where I think I want to work and then find a job or to try to find one via internet? I kind of like the idea of seeing the place in advance but then, I kind of like the idea of knowing that I have employment when I leave.

Ah, the life of a newbie! Very Happy Embarassed Shocked Rolling Eyes Very Happy
All your helpful comments are appreciated. The more details the better in my book!
Thanks!
Wink
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khmerhit



Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 1874
Location: Reverse Culture Shock Unit

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teach abroad for six months in Hanoi. Apply to teacher's college now. Qualify as a teacher and work in one of the many international schools that pepper the planet. More money, less stress, longer holidays, nice careeer.
But good luck whatever you do. Very Happy
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RachelA_Broad



Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 21
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey khmerhit!
Do you mean to apply to a regular teacher's college in the U.S. for ESL or are there ones abroad that would work? What kind of time does it take? Could I get a job in Hanoi without so much as a CELTA?
I mostly want to do something (educationally speaking) where I will get enough info to be a decent teacher but since I'm not sure this is my ultimate life's goal I had been thinking I would start slower on the spending money side of things and just go with CELTA and teach for a few years. Any thoughts?
Thanks
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M.K.



Joined: 01 May 2003
Posts: 57
Location: neither here nor there

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a newbie myself, but what the heck, I'll share some thoughts anyway. If you've never taught before, then it makes sense to do the CELTA or equivalent, then see how you like teaching before getting some advanced degree. Yeah, the CELTA's pricey, but less so than an MA TESOL, I'm guessing.
Where you take your CELTA can depend on where you want to work, or it can depend on where you're most comfortable living for a month. Don't think the CELTA will be your chance to vacation in another country. From what I've heard there's precious little time for sight-seeing, if any at all.
That said, I decided to take a CELTA course where I want to eventually teach. Or I can decide to not teach there, if it turns out I don't like the location. Either way, I'm not locked into some year-long teaching contract in a country I've never even visited. This seems to be a common Newbie mistake.
Hope this all makes sense. Bottom line I think, is look before you leap. Keep your CELTA and vacationing seperate. And think about taking the CELTA somewhere the culture shock won't be too extreme, and maybe where you'd like to teach so you can check out the TEFL scene before signing any contracts.
Best of luck! Very Happy
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khmerhit



Joined: 31 May 2003
Posts: 1874
Location: Reverse Culture Shock Unit

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK--these are my thoughts. Sorry if i sound abrupt, its nothing personal, i dont know who you are. however im nearly forty and just lucked out on a job at a big company, and i dont see much hope for mysel in ESL right now, unless i upgrade (MA), get hired at a community college (highly competitive and political) or go into exile once more, in which case my chances of returning to my home country are and being gainfully employed there will be nil. Yes, I could work at McDs, i know that. i dont care to. Get my drift? bad mood.

I say: do not stay in esl. Get a proper teaching degree NOW. Then, if you want to go abroad, get a job in an international school teaching econoimics or math or english or whatever, or ESL. I weould go for math.
Get my drift? Do not drift. Do it now. If you want to travel afterwards, you can, you can, and youll have a proper qualification to fall back on. Unlikemyself. good luck. Its only a year.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
when is the best time to be looking for teaching jobs in Asia/Vietnam?

3. Would you all advise me to just show up in Asia where I think I want to work and then find a job or to try to find one via internet?


Asia is a pretty big location, as I'm sure you realize. Did you have any other specific place in mind than Vietnam? I can give you advice on Japan, but I have a question first. What kind of teaching job are you interested in? High school? Conversation school? Elementary school? Adults only? Children only? Mixed?

I can give you a file of info on advantages and disadvantages of looking for work in Japan if you look from abroad vs. look from home.
GHILL18299@aol.com

Language conversation schools hire just about anytime, but places like high schools and elementary schools begin their school terms in April, so you'll have better luck with them if you search 2-5 months beforehand. That's when the ads come out, and that's about how long it'll take to get your work visa.
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Wolf



Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 1245
Location: Middle Earth

PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in China, which has a border with Vietnam....

The school year begins in September, so a lot of places are hiring right about now. Some private langague schools hire all the time, just like in Japan.

However, I warn you that the PRC isn't the easiest country to get started in - especially outside of Shanghai and Beijing. A lack of products you might be used to, the langauge barrier, a very different (and not always user friendly) way of doing things are just a few points to consider.

It can be rewarding, but if you're intent on starting off in a place like China or Vietnam be prepared to suffer. It's not all bad, but there'll be bad times. Maybe your employer might be less than honest, maybe the staring gets to you, maybe local food only won't apeal to you, maybe handling inconvieniences might be harder than you realize.

I'm not sneezing at your Kenya experience. But working in another country will bring up a lot of issues like the honesty of your employer, working conditions, living conditions (if living in a place provided by your employer) etc.

Japan has a reputation as an easier country to get started in (I lived there for 3 years before coming to China.) I'm just saying what I know - please make up your own mind - after doing research.
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RachelA_Broad



Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 21
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2003 2:33 pm    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

Thanks guys for all of your input.
As to your questions, I am flexible on the location. I honestly don't know enough about Asian cultures to really say that I am interested in one much more than the other. I have thought it would be interesting to teach in Nepal, Japan, Vietnam, China (although there seem to be some extremely mixed emotions among teachers in China so I'm not sure I would start there), and I'm not actually closed off to the idea of any one place except maybe Korea and Hong Kong right now.
In addition to learning about different cultures I am very interested in learning about and seeing and meeting local artists and crafts people.

I'm really thinking that I would prefer to teach an older crowd. My true preference would be to land a job in a University teaching conversational classes but I'm not holding my breath right away. Other than that, I could certainly swing with Business English, High School level, or anyone in those age groups. Younger kids would be a very different teaching experience for me but it might prove to be really fun.

If anyone has any thought on any of this I would be glad to hear them.
Thanks
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richard ame



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 319
Location: Republic of Turkey

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:06 am    Post subject: Not so far east not too west Reply with quote

Hi Rachel
I don't know why everyone and its pet cat keeps telling you to go East and East a bit more when the vast majority of the posters on this forum seem to bang on about the negative aspects of that part of the world . Seems to me if you want a change of culture ,pace of life and the chance to teach what you have in mind and in a university to boot my neck of the woods is a lot closer and less hassle ,depending on your present location which is ?
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm really thinking that I would prefer to teach an older crowd. My true preference would be to land a job in a University teaching conversational classes


Do you consider college students an "older crowd"? Or am I reading you wrong? If you want adults over 30 years old, you are going to have a fairly difficult time doing so in Japan because the majority of language schools cater to a mixture of such adults and children.

Moreover, with only a BA degree, you are not qualified to teach in Japanese universities. They require master's degrees and publications just to get your foot in the door.

If you want high school jobs, Japan requires a bachelor's degree (not necessarily picky about what major in some institutions), plus experience teaching. I'd say your chances are 50-50 in Japan.

In Japan, there are only about 6 places that hire from abroad:
the JET program (a government sponsored program that puts you in an ALT slot in public high schools)
GEOS
NOVA
AEON
ECC
Westgate Corporation
Each has its own web site. For more info, read the FAQ section of the Japan discussion forum.
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RachelA_Broad



Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 21
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:52 am    Post subject: Turkey Reply with quote

Hey Richard, I am in the U.S. at the moment, still chained to my desk job. If truth be told I would have gone to Spain to teach, but not being an EU citizen I can kiss that idea goodbye. I have also heard all of the complaining about the Asia area...but then, I have heard a lot of complaining about a lot of places...not as much for Vietnam.
I am interested in hearing some of your experiences in Turkey. I have read about it a bit through the U.S. Consular web page. It didn't sound bad but I would love some more information and any advice on some good schools would be great. I am pretty flexible on location. In my travels I have realized that I make myself happy pretty much anywhere I go so long as I can make some friends.
Thanks!
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RachelA_Broad



Joined: 11 Jul 2003
Posts: 21
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:05 pm    Post subject: Older Crowd Reply with quote

Sorry I wasn't more clear. When I said "an older crowd" I meant at least high school age and more preferably 18+. That is only because that is the age group that I have taught in the past. I'm not sure I would be the best elementary age teacher, but then, I am willing to give all of these things the good old college try for a little experience.
Thanks Glenski for all of your input, I will check out all of those websites. That file you sent me was amazing!!!
-Rachel Cool
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aaronschwartz



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 145
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CAUTION:

Older uni students in China are still immature little kids.

If you want to teach adults in China you should try private business institutes like Wall Street or Delter. They are both located in Beijing and Shanghai. They both have webs. You have the credentials for both.

Good luck.
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richard ame



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 319
Location: Republic of Turkey

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2003 6:36 am    Post subject: The Turkish connection Reply with quote

Hi Rachel
It is an option that suits a lot of people still close to Europe but not in it yet ,full of mystery and magic ,do I sound like a tourist brochure ?There are quite a few web sites that can give you more of an insight and checking out the Turkey forum and job journal will answer most of your questions . Sorry but I can't send you a file but maybe you are over loaded with options already ,whatever you decide good luck .
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