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bgrocks
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: Job in Romania |
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oops - I also posted this in the General Discussion.
I have been offered a job in Bucharest with a salary of 1700 Euro a month with a yearly housing stipend of 2400.
Would you please advise on whether that will be enough to live on and save. What kind of housing and in what kind of area will I be able to afford with that? Also any hidden costs that I wouldn't think about that need to be considered?
Thanks |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:56 am Post subject: Moving to Bucharest |
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It all depends on your circumstances!
If you can eat beans on toast, walk to work in searing heat/freezing cold, (or stand in jam-packed trams), and live in a tiny one-roomed hovel, then you will save money.
If you want, on the other hand, to drive a nice car, live in a decent three-roomed apartment with security, parking etc, eat out at good restaurants a few nights a week, and have a few foreign holidays every year, then it is not nearly enough to live on.
Realistically? You will be very unlikely to find a decent two-roomed apartment in good condition with things like A/C (necessary here in summer, if you want to stay sane), on the allowance given. I would be inclined to double that amount, which leaves you with 1500 euro, a bit less in winter as heating can be expensive.
As Romania is still quite a bit cheaper than the west, you will live pretty OK. One or two nights out a week, a decent shopping trolley, new outfit every so often, occasional books and CDs, and a couple of weekends away per term within Romania, no problem. You might even run a car, but not a Mercedes or a BMW, tho there are plenty of them around these days. For going out, avoid the expensive cafes where "trendy" Romanians hang out...you will pay western prices just to be with some very pretetious and shallow people. There are plenty of normal places where you can have a nice time cheaply, in the company of decent people.
However, you will not lead a life of high luxury!
Read earlier postings by me and others on things to do & places to see in Romania. It is a beautiful country.
Is it the BC you are going to work for?
PM me if you wish. |
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Frizzie Lizzie
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 123
Location: not where I'd like to be
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:23 am Post subject: |
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According to your post, Bebsi, 80% of Romania's inhabitants must be dying of starvation on their average salary of 150-200 euro a month  |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| According to your post, Bebsi, 80% of Romania's inhabitants must be dying of starvation on their average salary of 150-200 euro a month |
What's your exact point, Frizzie Lizzie? Are you suggesting that EFL teachers, or anyone else, should actually live on 150-200 euro a month? I hope not.
I live in Romania and run two businesses here, and am most familiar with the living standards of most Romanians. Many indeed do survive on this much money. They don't enjoy it, and they would most certainly accept more if they were paid it. Given the choice, they would NOT, nor expect anyone else to, continue to live on it.
What does all of this have to do with the OP's question regarding living standards? The amount he/she will earn will allow reasonable comfort, but not luxury just because many others have to survive on less than it.
Romania needs to develop a western (not Sicilian, mind you) style of open-market economy. Thankfully, it is now quickly doing so. This will esentially be based on the desire for more material comforts, not the adoption of a policy, as some appear to suggest, of sympathy-penury. Romanians have laboured under communism for long enough, after all.
It is a basic principle of economics that accepting or being content with less pay doesn't ease exploitation of others, it simply promotes it. |
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Mike_2003
Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 344
Location: Bucharest, Romania
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
In addition to what Bebsi says, most of the Romanians living on 150-200 Euro a month either live at home with the parents or live in a house owned by their parents (bought up when houses were virtually given away after the revolution). It would be virtually impossible to live independantly on that amount.
However, 1700 Euro a month would be an excellent wage. You would live an extremely enjoyable lifestyle on that amount. The housing allowance seems a little stingy though. If I were you I'd take the job but use some of your wage to suppliment your housing allowance. If you don't have a family and would be happy with a one-bedroom flat in a reasonably nice area, you would need more than 200 Euro - perhaps give yourself 400 Euro to get a nice place in a good location.
Bebsi presented two scenarios that were, although accurate, a little extreme. I eat very well, go out for a meal maybe once a week, take one foreign holiday and one local holiday a year, take taxis when I can't be bothered with the public transport, and live a small but clean and conveniently-located apartment on a lot less than 1700 Euro a month.
Hidden costs: In addition to rent you'll need to pay a fee to the admin of your block (which varies according to the season and heating bill), electricity, telelphone, cable TV (you'll want that - it's cheap and lots of programs in English), internet connection, and mobile phone.
Mike |
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Frizzie Lizzie
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 123
Location: not where I'd like to be
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| The point was, Bebsi, the OP needed to know that his monthly salary was way, way above average, and that consequently he would be able to save a nice amount as well as live comfortably. Your examples were indeed extreme. |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Your examples were indeed extreme. |
Yes, FL, they were extreme, and meant to be. I also tried to strike the middle ground.
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| The point was, Bebsi, the OP needed to know that his monthly salary was way, way above average, and that consequently he would be able to save a nice amount as well as live comfortably. |
I gathered that that was what you were trying to say. However, it tended to smack a little of the "it's above the standard of the locals so therefore it must be good enough" argument so prevalent in TEFL, and used not just by mickey-mouse language schools but by some teachers too.
Just because a salary is above the average...even, dare I say, way above the average, doesn't mean it is good or even adequate. Twenty times the local salary in Rwanda or Bangladesh is still below the poverty line...at least by western standards. I understand the point you were trying to make, but the way you put it could have given the impression that anything above 150-200 a month would be acceptable. It is NOT, needless to say...this figure represents extreme poverty by western standards, and is not something an expat should or could reasonably be expected to live on. 150-200 is FAR below the poverty line, and cannot be used as any kind of yardstick whatsoever.
Having said the above, I would say that 1700 a month is very good indeed for an EFL teacher in Romania, and yes, one can live quite comfortably on it. Remember that the accom allowance given isn't adequate by itself, and as Mike_2003 says, the OP should budget another 200 or so. In addition to rent, other charges such as electricity, heating, gas etc will arise.
On the remainder of approx 1500, whether one can save or not depends on a number of factors such as the amount and destination of foreign holidays, whether one runs a car and what kind of car etc. And of course, what is considered decent savings'
Certainly, a comfortable lifestyle is eminently possible. [/i] |
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bgrocks
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you for the advice. I have decided to take it and if nothing else it will be a good experience. At least I won't be living hand to mouth. |
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dracotei
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hello,
Guys, don't fight... First, thank you Bebsi. I am Romanian living in the U.S. for 17 years. I have taught ESL in Chicago, not aborad. My country is beautiful, but it still needs a lot of work. You're both right. Some people live very well in Romania, and some barely get by. This is the result of many decades of communism. For a Romanian E 1700 is a dream salary. You will need to make certain adjustments to your lifestyle. Stay out of Ferentari, Bucharest - not a safe area. Thank you both for taking interest in my country.
"Chicago - Chris" |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| This is the result of many decades of communism. For a Romanian E 1700 is a dream salary. You will need to make certain adjustments to your lifestyle. Stay out of Ferentari, Bucharest - not a safe area. Thank you both for taking interest in my country. |
As Dracotei says, for many in Romania e1700 is a dream salary...I would even venture a tad further and say it is well above what the majority earns. On such a salary, one can live quite well, but not in the lap of luxury by any means.
Food and drink (especially native produce) are considerably cheaper than the west, rents are also cheaper but catching up, (tho many places for rent are utterly sub-human) and clothes are a bit cheaper. You can get low quality very cheaply indeed, and the big designer brands are all available but are about the same as the west if not a little more. If you look, you can find decent brands at prices a little below the western equivalent.
In terms of transport, trains, metro and trams are dirt-cheap and taxis cost a fraction of western rates. Trams and metro provide an excellent service but are extremely crowded between 16.00 and 19.30. If you run a car, road tax is very cheap. Petrol and diesel are both just under a euro a litre, and insurance varies: very cheap for a small car, especially a Dacia, but more like the west for the bigger and flashier brands. Cost of cars also varies, as with insurance. Generally a bit cheaper.
The exceptions are car-hire and hotel rates in Bucharest which can be extortionate. Then again, if living here these aren't likely to be an issue, unless you don't run a car but wish to hire one for an occasional weekend.
Some adjustments are indeed necessary, but on 1700 it won't be anything major, I assure you. Services, however, can vary from average to diabolical. This will change in time, I believe.
Ferentari is indeed a less than salubrious area. Then again, I have walked there late at night without any problems, apart from being stared at and begged from! I live near Heroii Revolutiei and sometimes take a late leg-stretch. Crime generally, I would be at pains to emphasise, is very low in Romania, unlike in some other ex-communist countries. Foreigners, as long as reasonable care is exercised, are not in any real danger here. The crazy drivers are a far greater hazard, believe me.
Lastly, I have a great interest indeed in the country, which is very much my adopted home. It has its flaws, yes, but overall it is a beautiful country with many attractive qualities. Service is pretty dire in many places, everyone agrees. However, despite their difficulties most Romanians manage to be friendly and cheerful.
Customer care can be taught in two weeks, but it takes at least two generations to make a people smile. This gives Romanians a huge advantage indeed.
Last edited by Bebsi on Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pollux
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 224
Location: PL
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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1700 euros? That's more than average pay in France.
I think you will live above average. |
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Bebsi
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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1700 euros? That's more than average pay in France.
I think you will live above average. |
1700 euro is above the average EFL teacher's pay in France. It is well below the overall average for France, however. Even in France, I imagine that the average TEFLer lives pretty modestly, to put it mildly. I was there a year ago on holidays, and found it hugely expensive.
Furthermore, and notwithstanding the above, the French economy is one of the weaker performing ones in western Europe at the moment. I would even say that as eastern Europe gradually moves away from communism, France moves gradually closer towards it. 
I recall Mrs. B telling me that under communism, if you were lucky enough to even find a restaurant, you ate at a designated time; in other words, your mealtimes were decided for you. In France, it was similar: you could only have lunch between 12.30 and 14.30, and dinner was strictly served in most establishments strictly between 19.00 and 21.30, or even 21.00 in some places. I recall arriving at restaurants at 21.35 prepared to spend the bones of maybe 70 or 80 euro, and having "Ferme" screamed in our faces like an SS sergeant major addressing a young recruit who was just discovered to have jewish grandparents!
The only thing I found in France to be authentically capitalist was the prices!! 
Back to Romania (which I was very happy to be, and where I could eat when I wanted to!!), you can live well on 1700 a month, but NOT like a king as many might have you believe. It is all relative: you will live vastly better than many Romanians, but that's like saying an ant is much bigger than an amoeba. It all depends on what you consider "well", and I've dealt with this in earlier postings. |
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dracotei
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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I lived pretty much on ham and cheese sandiwches (jambon/fromage) and crepes when I was in France.... Love the bread there. The restaurant thing is true; however, that is how the French are. I respect them for it though. For the fact that they won't bend over backwards for Americans and other tourists; also, for the fact that they made a big deal when McDonalds came to France. The French like to be just that, French. I see nothing wrong with it, but I can see how it can get on some people's nerves. On the other hand, I don't know what is doing to their economy.
I lived with a French family in Avignon while going to school, and the American girl who was my roomate dared to eat a yogurt out of the fridge. The lady got pretty mad and explained to her that she plans dinner for a week and that was supposed to be that evening's desert. Now, she was missing one serving. She also got mad at her for using too much toilet paper to blow her nose when she got sick. I guess she expected her to buy handkerchiefs. That's when I told her that only in communist Romania toilet paper and hot water were luxuries. (I couldn't help it, my appoplogies to any French people around here.)
Overall, I did enjoy my French and Italian experiences. I liked Italy more, probably because the people were a lot more friendly, even in Florence where they are supposed to be more reserved. Also, the food is far superior in Italy, according to my taste buds. Here's something interesting I read somewhere though. Caterina De Medici brought a lot of what today are known as famous French dishes (e.g. coq au vin) to France when she married some French king (excuse my lack of historical knowledge here). Also, at her wedding it was the first time that utensils and table napkins were used in France. So, it seems that the Italians were, "more civilized", if I can say that, than the French back then. Whatever the case may be, I live by the old philosophy: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". |
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