Job Discussion Forums

Gilly23 · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 27

Well my friend is a CBC (Chinese born Canadian) he has no degree but he has gotten a TEFL Certificate and 6months teaching experience in Canada. How much can he expect to get in HK and what are his best options to work in? I think he is trying to get a dependant visa since his wife is in HK now. Would a tutorial centre be good or can he teach K1?

Gilly23 · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 27

one more thing, he can speak cantonese fluently so is that an advantage?

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Tell your friend that he has virtually zero chances of getting a teaching position in Hong Kong.
I am currently working in Guangdong under a British-educated Hong Kong administrator who could not find a job in HK (although fairly high-certified).
While in HK, I used to get anywhere from 200 an hour to 400 HK dollars!

prplfairy · Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 102

Hey Gilly 23,

Once again Roger has exagerated the situation. I have a very close freind who has no degree, a TEFL certificate and about as much experience as your friend and she has a job paying $17,000 HK a month. To be honest, however, none of this matters if the person gets HK residency. With residency you are almost assured of a position. I know people who have not even graduated high school (yes, high school!!) who hold full-time jobs in kindergartens. So the market is not so tight, see my previous postings. The Chinese ethnicity and the Cantonese speaking is a double edged sword. The previously mention girl making 17K is Chinese-American, speaking native English and Cantonese, but has faced some discrimination as many parents simply want a white teacher regardless of teaching or native English speaking status, see the aforementioned high school drop outs. However, the ability to understand the inherent difficulties that students here have along with being able to communicate directly with parents and local staff has made her an invaluable asset to the company and in many way much more valuable then a non-Cantonese speaker. And what Rogers hourly rates have to do with anything I don't know.

Gilly23 · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 27

Thanks fairy for all the info.

Bertrand · Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 293

I would....advise your friend to either be prepared to wait what may well become A VERY LONG TIME or to look elsewhere. It's really not that easy to get a half-way decent job here and if the person HND (Has No Degree) then I really can't see anyone even so much as replying to applications (and I'm not totally sure you CAN work here with no degree).

Another poster says that 'they know someone...who....'. This, of course, may well be true, everyone knows someone who..., but it costs A LOT of cash to come here AND stay here whilst looking for work (and it is not that easy just to come here 'looking for work').

The poster states that "With residency you are almost assured of a position". Yes, WITH residency! Though you can never apply for a NET post if you have residency! Besides, residency is no piece of cake; even for holders of British passports.

I would have thought it obvious why Roger referred to hourly rates. I interpreted this as meaning that he assumed that this prospective worker in HK would be looking for (unofficial) private lessons and the like. I.e., work that is paid hourly.

Besides, 17,000 HK dollars a month is peanuts here. Yes, some (though very few) new NETS start on that (but even this is unusual and this is why in another post I stated that the starting salary for NETs was 20,000 a month). Roger criticised this in a former post (probably correctly) but my point is that although the starting salary for a basic entry level NET is 17,000, hardly anyone who is a basic level prospective NET ever gets offered a place here and so it is meaningless! They go for those that are not entry level! Also, remember that even a 17,000 a month NET gets the 13,000 a month housing allowance. Without that, 17,000 a month....well, you'll find out!

Be wary of those that state that they know someone who has not even finished high school and who works in a Kindergarten. It does not mean you have the right to demand a similar post! (Most non-holders of school leavers' certificates reside and work in China; most of them for EF English Farce.)

prplfairy · Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 102

Hi,

I agree with Bertrand in that it will not be easy, not that I ever wrote it would be. I'm not sure I would attempt it without some kind of secondary income, which the careful reader will see that the subject does have. As far as HK residencey being a "piece of cake", while it is not the easiest process in the world it is not daunting if, as stated in the original posting, the spouse is an HK resident.

As far as Bertrand's remarks regarding personal experience and consequences, I would think that those types of posting are exactly what we want. Why would we want to hear the abstract vageries and generalizations of people who no longer live in HK, such as Roger? Of course I could be lying, anyone could be. Does that mean that relevant personal experience should disregarded? Of course not.

One point that I think Bertrand is confused on is his comment "you can never apply for a NET post if you have residency!" The original writer never mentioned the NET scheme, he asked about learning centers. If the person in question has no degree, Bert, I hardly think they are even imagining they come anywhere close to qualifying for the NET scheme. It's a non-issue, obviously Please don't make up issues that aren't in the previous postings.

And as far as Rogers hourly wage, how relevant is it? Let's have a think. We'll Roder has stated he is a degree holder, that he is not Chinese, does not speak Cantonese and no longer lives in Hong Kong. You might as well put down the hourly wage for a teacher in Prague in the late 90's as long as we're throwing around random hourly rates that have hardly any relvance to the question posed. There have been posting galore on wages here but the original poster asked for assistance regarding a person in a particular situation.

And finally, the $17,000 salary is small compared to a teacher in the NET scheme but let's not forget that the vast majority of English Teachers in Hong Kong DO NOT WORK FOR THE NET SCHEME! When you consider that most English teacher work for private learning centers or directly for schools, both private and public, $17,000 greand is not so bad especially when you consider that the person has no degree and minimal experience.

The larger lesson to walk away with here is that guys like Bertrand and Roger have for some reason chosen to champion the idea that you have to be extremely well qualified to work in Hong Kong. The simple truth is that you do not. Will you get a lower salary? Yes. Will it take longer to get a position? Yes. Is this any reason to stick you're tail between your legs and give up. I think it's very interesting that people get down on this Joanne Light Miller person and then at the same time try to discourage people who are willing to dedicate themselves for significantly less money. Is this discussion board simply a place to discourage people from being anything other than well qualified NET schemer or is it a place to get useful information?

Gilly23 · Joined: 09 Jul 2003 Posts: 27

would you know how many years of teaching experience will be equivalent to a degree. Once my friend gets his residency it, it shouldnt be that hard for him to find a teaching job in HK. BTW of course my friend is not going thru the NET Scheme.

Bertrand · Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 293

prplfairy · Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 102

I think what Bertrand's cryptic response is trying to say is that experience can never be substituted for a degree. There are many places that require a degree as a prerequisite and no amount of experience will get you past that. There are many other places, for example the one where my very real friend works, where they are more concerned with how good a teacher the applicant is than whether or not he or she has a piece of paper that can be effectively reproduced for less than US $100, e.g. a degree, transcripts, TESOL, etc. So while experience will not break down many of the barriers presented by the degree prerequisite, there are places that are more flexible where employers are willing to give those without a degree, especially if they are HK residents, a chance to prove themselves.

once again · Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 815

Bertrand wrote.."Though you can never apply for a NET post if you have residency!" Why does having residency disallow someone for working for the NET scheme?

Bertrand · Joined: 02 Feb 2003 Posts: 293

once again · Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 815

Can you point to an EMB site that tells me this or can you tell us how you know this? THe reason that I ask is that I myself am an HK resident and worked for the last year on the NET scheme, and so did many of the people I know who are HK residents.

Cobra · Joined: 28 Jul 2003 Posts: 436

prplfairy · Joined: 06 Jun 2003 Posts: 102

Actaully,

Exageration is one of Roger's defining personality traits and this message was far from the first time. Fell free to see the "kookie phone interview" thread to see how anyone who takes side jobs is a criminal, if you are having trouble finding examples. Perhaps you should also see the "Illegal work/Sponsorship/the Law?" thread to see how if you don't carry your passport you will be interrogated under the lights by the police. Let's not forget the dozens of NET teachers Roger insinuated get deported every day, also in the :kookie phone.." thread.

Roger is usually so far off the spot he's not aware of which time zone the spot is in. He likes to scare people, put down Hong Kong, and tell everyone who inquires that there are no jobs here. Your respect is misplaced my friend.