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EF International in London
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t-dog



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:35 pm    Post subject: EF International in London Reply with quote

Has anyone ever worked for EF in London? I haven't heard a lot of good things about it but was wondering if this was the general consensus. It's still Steve Allen running things over there.
Would appreciate any input about it.

T-dog
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SandyM



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 114
Location: Here, there, and everywhere...

PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:41 pm    Post subject: An EF Wonderland... Reply with quote

T-dog, you should know that EF is the premier destination for the UK's top Teflers. They offer wonderful salaries, enviable working conditions, and you could not hope to meet a better team of dedicated colleagues there.

In fact, one of the reasons so many of them haven't written and told you this ... is that they don't want it to become common knowledge.

Why are you laughing like that?

[BTW, please wake me up at the next station...]


Last edited by SandyM on Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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t-dog



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL! Thanks Sandy. I get the point =) Baptism of fire it is then.
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SandyM



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 114
Location: Here, there, and everywhere...

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject: EF ... eeeeek!!! Reply with quote

Now be careful, t-dog - you're playing with the real big-hitters there. After all, with hourly rates like these...

12.20 p.h. CELTA or equivalent
12.85 p.h. DELTA or equivalent


...they probably attract those elusive Tefl-guru types who write books and internet articles in their free time.

Incidentally, what they are paying is actually less than I was earning at FE (and some EFL) colleges in London in the late 1990s! It is good to see how much they value a Delta, though - almost 5% more than a Celta! There's crackin', for yer!!

Sandy
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SandyM



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 114
Location: Here, there, and everywhere...

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:25 pm    Post subject: Even worse out in the sticks... Reply with quote

But wait, it gets even worse outside of London. Take a look at the following extract from their latest advert for a real laugh...

EF ILS Hastings is looking for enthusiastic teachers to start as soon as possible with work available until the end of August.

Compensation
11.65 per contact hour/ DIP 12.00. Salary includes holiday paid pro rata.


What Diploma teacher on Earth would be 'enthusiastic' about earning twelve quid an hour - including holiday pay??!!

Sandy
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t-dog



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Sandy. You were right. Majorly not impressed and that was only the interview. I think I'll stick to what I'm doing and steer clear away =)
Know any schools that only deal with adults? I am now certain I am not one of those parental teachers these summer centres are looking for ;P
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Frontline



Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

t-dog, do you feel like living in Brighton?
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saint57



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1221
Location: Beyond the Dune Sea

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SandyM, what is a good salary for someone with 1-3 months of training? I wouldn't take the job, but 12 quid sounds more than fair. I doubt I.H. pays $25 CDN in Toronto, Canada. $25/hour is more than most university grads will see for a long time.
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stillnosheep



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:48 pm    Post subject: If you think the money's shi-ite you should see the job... Reply with quote

Well Saint, 12 per teaching hour works out at about 8 per working hour when prep. etc is taken into account, and 37 or 40 X 8/hr will hardly pay the rent in London, or Brighton, and is appalling wages for a professional with a degree and post-graduate qualification.

Anyhow most London EFers I see seem to spend their days wandering round in EF T-shirts shepherding herds of disinterested teenagers through the tube in the manner of terminally depressed club 18-30 reps with little prospect of a double vodka every 30 mins to help them make it thru the day.

Beyond pity really.
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lolwhites



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 158
Location: France

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saint - have you ever lived in London? Making comparisons with rates of pay in Toronto is just daft. A quick Internet search tells me that the going rate for a room in a houseshare in Toronto is 450 CAD pcm (around 210 GBP), while a comparable room in London starts at around 400 GBP (860 CAD).

The fact that 25 CAD per hour is a good starting salary in Toronto is neither here nor there; it does not affect the fact the 12 GBP per teaching hour in London is not enough to live on.
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Jyulee



Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So how do they survive?

When I was living in London (and, in fact, I am back for one month - earning 13.29 an hour Smile) I, and most teachers, were just about clearing 1,000 a month after tax.

This is not very much. But it is enough to live on.

Shared accomodation with a partner and/or flatmates doesn't have to be more than 350 a month - it won't be central, and it won't be luxurious, but it's possible.
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lolwhites



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 158
Location: France

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

13.29 an hour? That's pretty good by TEFL standards! Enough to live on and enough to survive on are two very different things in my book! Just because you aren't actually starving dosen't mean your wage is high enough, especially considering that schools consider a university degree "essential". And my experience of living in London taught me that unless you work on the outskirts then what you save by living in the sticks gets spent on transport, not to mention the hassle of rising at the crack of dawn to allow for any transport delays.

Shared accommodation is all very well for the twentysomethings, but when you get older you'll probably want more out of life, which probably means getting out of EFL or finding a partner on considerably more than you (I did the former and moved into FE). In fact, as I remember from my UK private sector days, the only teachers who weren't turning up for work in the same tatty clothes every day were the ones with partners in well-paid jobs!

Edit - forgot to say that the original question was about EF who, apparently, pay 12 quid ph (according to other posters here) not 13.29. The latter rate would be equivalent to a 10% pay rise for your average EF teacher! To clear a grand a month after deductions would mean 25-30 hours contact time pw, which is an awful lot if you're going to do it properly.
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Jyulee



Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lolwhites

I agree with everything you have said!

I'm working for EF London now - that's why I participated in this thread. It's only for a month, and only because, several years ago, I worked here before! (better the devil you know...) Believe me, if I wanted to settle in London, I would find something better. Next month I move back to Madrid where experience and qualifications are better rewarded. (I am paid a little more than 12 here because I have a DELTA - in Madrid I earn twice that, and it is a significantly cheaper city to live in).

I cannot argue that EF is the cream of the crop - but looking at it from a global perspective...

They pay on time
They are well-resourced
The students want to learn
The teachers and management are, for the most part, nice
It is very central

There are literally thousands of teachers right now working in "sweat-shop-schools" in Asia who would kill for most of the above. I sure did about 5 years ago...

Agreed, it is still criminal what they pay here. EF, too, is not a particularly wholesome organisation at higher levels... Nonetheless, let's keep this balanced. For someone who has just graduated from their CELTA a place like EF wouldn't be that bad. For someone like me, who needs something to do in London for a month (and has sympathetic parents), it is tolerable. For someone hoping to have a career and support a family, it is unsuitable.

The few teachers here who DO have families to support generally have spouses that earn more.
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saint57



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1221
Location: Beyond the Dune Sea

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I lived in London for six months in 2002. I am well aware that it is expensive to live there. I am also aware that fully certified teachers have trouble making it in London. If the pay were higher, people with 1 month certificates would not be able to get the job. In my opinion, it's a fair wage.

Teaching at an institute such as E.F. should be an introduction to teaching and nothing more. Some people work in pubs just to get a chance to live in London. Take the 12 quid/hour, get drunk after work and enjoy the city (not the job).

BTW, a crappy one bedroom apartment in the hood (Scarborough) will cost you $1,000. If you lurk in the $800-$900 range you're asking for trouble.
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lolwhites



Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 158
Location: France

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think saint misses my point about 800-900 dollar rents. I was trying to say that comparing wages in London with wages in Toronto without considering the cost of living is a pointless exercise. I didn't see the relevance of saying "12 GBP ph is equivalent to 25 CAD ph and, most recent graduates in Toronto would be happy with that" unless you point out that one also has to pay the equivalent of 800 CAD to rent a room in London when a similar room in Toronto would cost half that amount.

OK, so there are worse places to work (like a certain well resourced school on the South coast where the then DoS sacked me with no explanation offered). 12.50 GBP ph is what I earned in London in 1999 (I see not much has changed in 7 years; haven't these places heard of inflation?), and I survived 'cos my folks helped me with the rent, while it seems like Jyulee also needed help from sympathetic parents. Oh, and I had a Dip plus 6 years experience by then - I wasn't a newly qualified teacher

12 quid an hour might be OK as a starting salary, but according to Sandy's original post, even Dippies at EF only get 12.85 ph; that means someone with a degree, at least three years experience (most places offering Dip courses won't even look at you if you have less) plus an advanced teaching qualification is worth an extra 65p ph. The depressing thing is it's pretty much the standard rate

nb one for the mathematicians - if Dippies get 65p more per hour, and it costs 1500 GBP to do a DELTA course, how long does it take to recoup the fees?
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