Job Discussion Forums

[syntax51]

Any thoughts on working for them? No country specific yet, but I interview by telephone Friday. Any info most helpful!

[jpvanderwerf2001]

I work at an EF in Vladivostok.
EF is a large chain of schools. As with most large chains, the quality of schools, management, directors, and materials can vary. Also, I have heard/read that there's a lack of creative freedom, since it's a "McSchool" (though this hasn't been my experience).
That being said, the following should hold true: You'll get your full pay at the end of each month, contractual obligations are honored, there is room for advancement, they give bonuses, and there's a smaller chance that the school will shut down, all the sudden, at the end of the month.
Some other factors (whether or not they're positive or negative is obviously subjective):
1) It is a for-profit company. This means that you may be expected to push EF products, such as their summer overseas camps and the like; and
2) There are administrative duties that you might not encounter at another type of language school (such as inputting student information in computers).
Good luck!

[ls650]

What that last guy said. EF take great pride in being modelled after McDonald's: they are a franchise operation, and like any franchise business, some are well-run, some are just okay, and some are horrible.
Make sure you ask for references from teachers who have worked at that particular school...

[yaramaz]

I worked at one of the branchs in Istanbul for a year then quit to go teach at a university... and am now back at another branch in Istanbul and quite happy to be back. I think because its a chain, the quality varies. The Istanbul ones are owned by the same couple who used to own IH here. As businessfolk go, they are pretty reasonable and fair. We dont have to push products, we get a pretty good salary (and a salary is hard to get in this city if you work in a language school- most is hourly) and average 20 hours a week. I feel a lot saner and rested than I did in the uni- no more huge classes of bored kids who need to pass an exam only and arent really interested in learning more than just the exam. I'd take great students and non oppressive atmosphere over 3 months of holidays per year and a negligible pay increase.

[yaramaz]

Oh, and I meant to mention about the creative freedom bit- I don't know about other schools but the Istanbul ones don't use the EF books (because they are crap) so we have a lot of freedom with our teaching, using several quite decent books.

(If I momentarily sound a bit too enthusiastic, I recommend teaching at a Turkish private uni for a year. You will understand )

[kparsons]

Yaramaz-

What's the salary for teachers at EF in Istanbul? I assume it will vary a little bit, based on experience, but how about a ballpark figure? And, as you're on salary there, does that mean you don't have to fret about finding extra work in the slow summer months? Any additional info would be GREAT -- we've been sold on Turkey for a long time, but are just concerned we'll be living in a 2x2 apartment w/cardboard furniture, eating cabbage.... Thanks!

[rusmeister]

Last I looked they were offering as little as $6/hr.
These days even $12/hr is nothing.

Everything I heard was definitely teacher-exploitive.

[yaramaz]

I'm getting 1900ytl plus 200ytl housing allowance plus 80ytl in sodexho coupons (for restaurants). The average is 20 hours a week, depending on the season. If you sign a one year contract you have no fears about summer. And as for housing, the first time I worked at EF in Istanbul, I had my own flat on the Asian side. This time, because I'm on the other side where it is a lot more expensive (I'm right in the middle of things, in Tunel, in Beyoglu) I am sharing a funky old flat with a friend. No money probs- afterrent and utilities I still have about 1500 ytl left over to play with. To put it into perspective: a beer can be 4 ytl, a doner kebab can be 2-4ytl, public transport is between 1 and 2 ytl, fruit and veg is cheap if bought in season (and generally is), and buses and trains are quite cheap (I think I paid 90 ytl for a round trip overnight sleeper to Sofia last year).

Its not as dire as some might think.

[gregoryfromcali]

You can find some comments about EF in China on this thread.

http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=43162

[Gregor]

EF can be a pretty chill, decent experience. I've worked for three different schools - one in Jakarta, Indonesia and the other two in Liaoning, China (one in Shenyang the other in Dalian). I was the Director of Studies in the two schools in China. Basically I had good experiences. Dalian was a bit of a mess when I got there, but I think I sorted it out fairly well while I was there.

I know, for sure, that my appearance here is going to turn this into a flame-fest on EF. I hate for that to be the case. The truth is, it IS a franchise, so some are better than others. I want to back up Is650's advice. See what the teachers at your prospective school say. And ignore people who used to work at an EF or have never done so, and have just heard tell. They don't know. And the who give you nightmare stories? That could be one of three things (and you have no idea which):
1) The teacher had a genuinely bad experience and you shouldn't work at that school.
2) The teacher is bellyaching because he or she didn't read the contract and didn't have a DoS to hold his or her hand through the whole experience, so their take on things is unfair to you and the school, at best, or
3) The teacher has no actual idea from having worked at an EF, and is just spouting off about something he heard from a friend he trusts or something. Not reliable information.

What you need is advice from people currently working for the EF school that you want to go to. if you get bad and current reports (EFs do sometimes change management, so last year's bad experience can be this year's paradise), tell the head office to give your file to another school. You can refuse a school and stay in the EF system and find a post that you feel good about. They need teachers, so take the time and trouble to do this.

[rusmeister]

In my case, I had applied for work at EF, and when I found out the pay offered turned right around and left. It was starting $6/hr in Moscow. (This was 7-8 yrs ago, but still...)

There can be posters who want to unfairly flame EF and ones that want to covertly sell it. Them's the facts at my disposal and I'll stand by them. I'm very skeptical but will allow that some may have had a good experience there.

It's a McSchool that has a general history of low wages and inexperienced teachers. For a candidate with little to no experience who wants to try teaching out for a year and doesn't care about money at all it might be a valid option.

[yaramaz]

The funny thing is, in Istanbul, EF is one of the best packages in town for language school teaching. It's far from perfect but a hell of a lot better than 15ytl/hour with no guaranteed hours or holidays or work permits.

[oldie]

My experience with EF was positive. I'm a retired Australian primary school teacher (31 years!). I gained TESOL Certificate IV qualification in April this year. I already had committments beginning in September, so I was looking for short term TESOL work -- for the experience, not for the money. On TEFL.com an EF franchise near Shanghai was offering Summer Term employment.

I applied, and within 24 hours received an e-mail reply stating interest in me. 48 hours later, the DoS rang and offered me the job.

We were in constant communication and I agreed to come 2 weeks earlier to teach an "intensive" 7 academic hour/day 8-day course for students off to university before starting regular Summer Term Work.

Within 2 days of arrival, I was paid full rebate for all expenses for my visa and 4000 RMB for half my airfare. I had been met and chauffered from the airport to my comfortable spacious flat (shared with 1 other male EF teacher). The flat was air-conditioned with a nice tv and I had broadband (such as was available in that part of China). The flat was rent-free, though we had to pay for utilities and internet connection. It was an easy 7-8 minute walk to school.

The school itself was on the ground floor of a modern office block. The classrooms were bright, cheery and well appointed. The Chinese staff were friendly, along with the DoS and other teachers. We got along well --I felt welcome and appreciated.

By western standards the salary was crap -- equivalent to "The Dole" in Australia -- 4000 RMB per month. I was in it for the experience anyway and not for the money. But, I soon discovered I could live VERY comfortably. I never cooked, apart from the occasional pre made meal in the microwave. I even managed two weekend trips away.

Like anywhere, there were some problems -- mainly that the Centre Manager knew nothing about education or teaching and neither did the Chinese Staff. I think the CM took on the job as a "hobby" as she was already a millionaire (with her husband).

As a teacher, I found it extremely frustrating when new students kept entering classes -- even after 4 weeks of the 8 week term, and others just stopped coming -- all of this was a result of MONEY paid or not paid.

Students were also placed into classes inappropriately. It was a small school and placements were made based on age, regardless if their ability matched the rest of the class. This was especially bad with a class of "Trailblazers" (11-14 year-olds) I had where 3 new students came in half-way through the term and were hopelessly behind the rest of the class. Yet at the end of the term, I was pressured to "Pass" them on to the next level. This also happened with a class of 9-10 year-olds I had.

I wouldn't say their curriculum materials are "crap" plus I heard they are up-dating - in their termiologies anyway. They are a useful starting point anyway and are adaptable. The biggest problem I had with curriculum was that we were pushing "conversational" English, yet the curriculum and parent's expectations were very grammar-based -- like what they get in their Chinese schools. The older students parrticularly wanted much more emphasis on conversation which of course doesn't fill the exercises in the book -- and that's what the CM and the parents expected.

Come the 27th of August, I was happy to return home. I had received my final salary and 2nd half of my flight rebate in $AUD which was very convenient. Sure, there were frustrations -- but the experience was very positive on the whole.

As others have said, with a franchise you take your chances. Maybe I was just lucky, but I for one would return to EF for a summer contract.

Hope this has helped, syntax.

[yaramaz]

Its not so much that the materials were crap... they just werent good. The coursebooks had a lot of basic mistakes, both in content and form, the listenings were often way too long for the students levels, and grammar points were often completely unrelated to the rest of the material. However, I have heard things have been updated recently. All I can say is that going back to cutting edge was a relief.

[englishgibson]

I worked as a teacher, senior teacher and director of studies at EF centers....with regards to Istanbul, i had a teacher that worked there once (three years back i think)...the teacher complained about the living conditions as well as deceiving recruiting techniques, courtesey of Turkish EF recruitement..well, the teacher expected to work with kids, but got those business classes

McEF is the largest educational institution in the world according apparently, but it also is the largest CORRUPTED educational institution too ... the franchise will offer its name to business people around the world, will advertise as McEF, but will ease up on any standards if necessary ... meaning that those franchisees are "offered" to do anything they want as long as the carry that "McClown name" at their door-steps its employees are often submitted to some peculiar management techniques by individual McEFs local managements that do not need to communicate with their head(less) offices

In my opinion, corruption shall not be supported anywhere, especially if it comes to an educational institution ....surely everyone has his/her own right to make that decision where to work or how to go about his/her business ...be your own judges and make your own decisions...your success might be at your own door-step

Peace to the McEF Head Office in Switzerland (does it really exist )
and
cheers and beers to the happy ones at all McEF and Mc "clone" EF centers around the world

_____________________________________________________________
I had a "Mc bud light" in Huizhou Guangdong China, but the bud was so light it could fly