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Steppenwolf
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769
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 Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| vikdk wrote: |
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| I put up with this systems' shortcomings without exacting a higher bribe than locals get just to keep me here. You on the other hand seem to be arguing that if you put your Master's degree to such a pedestrian service as running oral English classes you must at least be paid what this sleazy system can pay you (though not its own teachers). A case of moral double standards, perhaps? |
for us others to fully understand your argument - Steppenwolf, could you please tell us what kind of educational qualification you are putting to Chinese service? After all extracting a decent teaching wage in this country surely isn't just a question of being white - relevant qualification must count for something - and that something must have some sort of relation to our wages? |
I think your quals are far more interesting since you are a kindy specialist, which puts you outside of our realm of teaching students.
As for my quals, suffice it to say my employers have had to check them and were satisfied; also in contrast to you I am proficient at more than just teaching one language, and I am not just a bookworm that sucks in all his knowlsedge from stats and the printed word.
I wouldn't be teaching if I hadn't received a number of really useful and honest testimonials by westerners and by Chinese.
I usually hold down my main job for several years. |
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Steppenwolf
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| NathanRahl wrote: |
No kid, your not the only one, I have noticed it as well, he does side with the chinese much more often then not, I don't get it either. Just thought I would speak up, since you asked any other FT's if they also saw this, and I do.
Anyone else? |
...and you have been here how long? Siding with the Chinese usurers and bloodsuckers, huh? I side with facts and opinions but not with ethnicities.
When I lived in western countries I had the same trouble with some of my peers: this nihilism, negativism, manicheanism, cultivation of the victim complex, class warfare.
I think some of you are stuck in the class struggle.
It was easy to make money in western countries (where I lived, not in those where I didn't live), very easy, and yet what finally decided me to move on was that in spite of having a carefree existence fewer people were satisfied or, horribile dictu! - HAPPY; they grumbled and complained on and on, switched jobs when another employer promised them higher wages. So much for loyalty.
You do a job because that's your damn bloody duty as a human being, and the monetary reward is only part of your returns. I have to say I am surrounded by better colleagues in China than I ever was in any western country; some friendships here have lasted through thicker and thinner periods than they would have in a western society.
Just think the other way round: would CHinese working in the U.K. or Australia start threads in the local media about how they feel undervalued and underpaid?
It's only westerners - pampered and spoilt brats - that do it abroad, right? That is a character flaw that makes many TEFLers in Asia the butt of ire and irony among Asians.
You are conveying mercantilism and consumerism in a social environment where other qualities should matter. Idealism for example might go a long way in making you enjoy your temporary expatriation. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Just think the other way round: would CHinese working in the U.K. or Australia start threads in the local media about how they feel undervalued and underpaid?
It's only westerners - pampered and spoilt brats - that do it abroad, right? That is a character flaw that makes many TEFLers in Asia the butt of ire and irony among Asians.
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I dont knw bout the UK but as to the Chinese and Japanese posting on BBs about their chinese and japanese employers in the US..yea they were bit ching....low wage..under the minimun cause they were working illegal..and their same ethnic boss men cheated them the same as in china...and japan.... |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| As for my quals, suffice it to say my employers have had to check them and were satisfied; |
Steppenwolf - good to see you're stringently "employer" qualified - but actualy I was only inquiring about the nature of your qualification (do you hold a bachelor degree or higher???? - an answer to this helps us better understand your case - after all these qualifications are the subject of the thread) - I didn't really want your CV  |
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NathanRahl
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| In response to Step, I don't see a lot of idealism in chinese employers, just a lot of greedy bloodsuckers who want to make as much money as possible. How are they different from us "pampered and spoiled" americans exactly? |
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Steppenwolf
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| NathanRahl wrote: |
| In response to Step, I don't see a lot of idealism in chinese employers, just a lot of greedy bloodsuckers who want to make as much money as possible. How are they different from us "pampered and spoiled" americans exactly? |
Turn the table on some FTs and recognise them in your apt description of "greedy...bloodsuckers...". Why should employers be idealistic but not employees??? Especially if those "employees" are foreign nationals??? |
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Millerlong
Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 147
Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| If you take yourself and your ESL profession seriously then you would never work for 4000 RMB per month. This kind of low wage is reserved for those desperate newbies who come to China. Everything is about the money because your quality of life depends on it. Where does 4000 RMB get you??? When I was teaching 3 years ago I was earning an easy 12000 RMB and able to use what I saved (a lot) to go on holidays around China and internationally. How about you teachers working on 4000 RMB? You need to count every RMB you make, eat jiaozi and 'hand-pulled' noodles everyday. Wake up and stop accepting these low wages because you can still get that "experience" and learn about the culture while at the same time saving a bucket load of RMB to spend how you please. |
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TravellingAround
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 423
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Depends on where you live and what hours you have to do. There is no one-size-fits-all salary in the Middle Kingdom. If your 4000RMB entitles you to over three months worth of paid holiday while only teaching 10 or so hours a week then it can't really be compared to a training centre job.
The salary is of course important but doesn't tell the full story of what the job is worth, other factors and benefits need to be taken into account. |
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NathanRahl
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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You answered your own question Step  |
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Steppenwolf
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| Millerlong wrote: |
| If you take yourself and your ESL profession seriously then you would never work for 4000 RMB per month. This kind of low wage is reserved for those desperate newbies who come to China. . |
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I would regard this as blatant lies. I can prove you wrong. 4000 goes a long way in China, full stop. I spend less than 2 mille a month, and that includes beef and wine and also a generous supply of cheese and other goodies. Yes, I hardly go out because that doesn't agree with me. But I spend an inordinate amount of money on travelling. And I still save a good deal from the first 4000 of my income (it obviously is higher than that).
Others I happen to know survive on little over 1000 a month (free food in their school canteen).
WHy are newbies desperate to get a job? That's their issue; no matter what, they clearly see the obvious: you get remunerated reasonably well in China; few other destinations beckon with higher salaries, and those that do offer higher salaries attract more competitors. Do those countries get better applicants? Depends on what the employer wants. Almost anywhere in the TEFL scene FTs are hirelings that do their boss' bidding; so-called "self-respect" would prevent you from accepting any position anywhere outside your home country unless you could obey your professional conscience. Are you allowed to obey it in Vietnam or Japan? |
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Millerlong
Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 147
Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Steppenwolf wrote: |
| I would regard this as blatant lies. |
How is what I said a lie? Ok, perhaps for some 4000 RMB is enough to survive each month. |
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vikdk
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| and that includes beef and wine and also a generous supply of cheese and other goodies. |
That's what I would call opulent luxury - I can now see we only need to earn 2K/month to live like kings  |
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TravellingAround
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 423
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Millerlong wrote: |
| Steppenwolf wrote: |
| I would regard this as blatant lies. |
How is what I said a lie? Ok, perhaps for some 4000 RMB is enough to survive each month. |
Doubt that 4000 would be (anywhere near) enough in Shanghai, but in a smaller town in a less economically developed part of China it would go much further. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| would regard this as blatant lies. I can prove you wrong. 4000 goes a long way in China, full stop. |
You lie, SteppStoryTeller, as 4000 would be a minimum and would insure that you spend you life eating prison issued school fare and staying on campus...whiling ways your life at the school computer...when it is not broken or outages have left you in a communicativeness state...4000RMB will likely insure some moments of great depression...
Take into acct..that you as a foreign worker has no unemployment or insurance..retirement or company based investment..and it is accountable as "slave wages"....The Chinese English based service companies are getting foreign mouthpieces for a song..and if it is something one wants to do for the experience ..then it is feasible..but as for making a living..4 k is a laugh.. |
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Millerlong
Joined: 21 May 2003
Posts: 147
Location: Shanghai, China
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, come and experience China for 4000 RMB!!! You will be telling everyone that you do it just for the experience. After 3 months you may realise what a mistake you have made and that others are earning a lot more per month because they took the 8000 RMB - 12000 RMB jobs for the same amount of hours. |
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