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Did you notice? (re. College expansion/more students)
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Malsol



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject: Did you notice? (re. College expansion/more students) Reply with quote

Very Happy

Last edited by Malsol on Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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latefordinner



Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 973

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was talking with one of my favourite students the other evening when she mentioned this. Well in a class of however many, she's the only one who shows (that happens when a school schedules a class for Friday evening, 6 to 7:40), so instead of tackling pages x to y, we talked about the class, various student concerns, and school in general. She tells me that she is wasting years of her time at our school, because many of her teachers don't know any more about what they're teaching thay she knew coming out of gao xue. They're young, which isn't a bad thing, but they not only lack experience in their fields; they also lack both a sense of purpose in their teaching and they have a "read from the book" approach to the classroom. <big sigh on my part there> Her conclusion is that the school was in a hurry to hire whoever it could put in front of a class, and that the best candidates were all going elsewhere. We're only a fourth or fifth tier college, we get everyone else's leftovers. <Makes me feel good, just being here> For her, the only way to salvage her education is to get out of China and get a degree from a real uni. And so, as the only one who is teaching practical English and IELTS prep, I am her most important teacher. Exactly the opposite of the school's hierarchy. Scary.
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Steppenwolf



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My suspicion is somewhat the opposite of what latefordinner says:
The oldies with their supposed lengthy experience are ineffective as teachers because they are dour, uninspiring and only interested in preserving the status quo (i.e. their own privileged position); they are the last to change their teaching styles or to accommodate student requests. They also lord it over the rookies.

The new recruits come in two kinds: the very bright, motivated and energetic ones, and the also-rans who, like the oldies, merely want to win their bread.
The rookies who still show interest in their job are quickly put in their low station by the establishment; it's adapt or die! And whose standards must they adapt to? To the oldies'!
I know this because my girlfriend has been severely reprimanded for stepping outside the confines imposed on her by the school elders! Other fresh graduates I have known for years never even went to teach in public schools for the same reason! They loathe being assessed by "professor Wang" who has the power to make you lose your job or keep it - he has been here since shortly after the cultural rev.
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latefordinner



Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 973

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Points of agreement, points of disagreement. Yes, I've long been aware of the mysterious professor Wang who never shows up for an assessment or observation but wields the big stick from an unassailable place far away. The professor who got his place during the cult rev by reading comic books and threatening his teachers with denunciation. Who now casts a Shelob's web and shadow over any and all who would pass unoticed into the Mordor of Chinese education. They are few, but their poisonous reach and stench is great. Many juicy but inert specimens reside here in cocoon, waiting but the tender touch of tooth on flesh to tell them that this way only retirement lies. Few, all too few, venture into the caves of the Shelob of cult rev orthodoxy and emerge unstung and unhung. I've known a few, but the operative word here is few. I admire them.
Sadly however most Chinese teachers that I have met haven't been very good. When a student whose opinion I respect catalogues teachers' failings so precisely and thoroughly, I can but shake my head and agree. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The best chinese teachers are very good teachers, not because of but in spite of their training. Unfortunately the failings of the many outweigh the successes of the few. And I find it frightening that students think of me as the shining vial of light that will help them search a way out of the darkness.
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Steppenwolf



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

latefordinner wrote:


The best chinese teachers are very good teachers, not because of but in spite of their training. Unfortunately the failings of the many outweigh the successes of the few. And I find it frightening that students think of me as the shining vial of light that will help them search a way out of the darkness.


I can agree to this though I would give the teachers more credit: they are so bad at teaching not in spite of a long training but BECAUSE of it.
IT's the same as the bad English of our students - it's the product of long classroom training.
Trouble is that teachers must toe the line that non-teachers prescribe; in Chinese tradition there only is one correct answer, and everything else is "wrong". Hence everyone follows the same wrong path that leads to the result we all know. It's quasi-Party sanctioned.
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Long ai gu



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the populous becomes TOO educated it may rise up against the present regime. The orders to keep them stupid come from the top. The Chinese education system is basically: listen, remember and repeat....and be a good little soldier who does what he/she is told.
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Malsol



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou

PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surprised

Last edited by Malsol on Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Long ai gu



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I respect you and your opinions and your attacks. A musician of course is but a fool and a drummer is not a musician at all. Come now, your insults could be so much better, use your imagination. I love your abuse.
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Leon Purvis



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 420
Location: Nowhere Near Beijing

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long ai gu wrote:
I respect you and your opinions and your attacks. A musician of course is but a fool and a drummer is not a musician at all. Come now, your insults could be so much better, use your imagination. I love your abuse.


Are ya gonna start writing bad checks now?
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no_exit



Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 565
Location: Kunming

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Long ai gu wrote:
If the populous becomes TOO educated it may rise up against the present regime. The orders to keep them stupid come from the top. The Chinese education system is basically: listen, remember and repeat....and be a good little soldier who does what he/she is told.


Even though the number of college students is on the rise, they aren't receiving any kind of real education, and certainly not the sort you'd need to foster "rise up against the present regime" sort of sentiments. In fact, college education in China is the exact opposite -- it breeds complacency and laziness. University is more like day care for grown up children than it is higher education. Kids graduate from high school and college is the solution to being unemployed, for four years at least. It is a holding pen for young adults, and nothing more -- especially those fourth and fifth rate colleges that employ many of the FTs throughout the country, which is why the number of these schools, and the number of students, is on the rise. Their is a big unemployment problem in China, and fresh grads have a very hard time finding decent work, so the obvious solution is to put off the inevitable by enrolling in college and hoping the degree will be a ticket to a job.

The sad thing is, the subjects the students learn and the degrees they "earn" are worth less than nothing, and simply serve to create an "educated elite" who think they are entitled to more than the rest of the population because they spent four years in their dorm playing computer games and downloading their "research" off the internet. My school gets recent college graduates coming in as potential new hires all the time, and these kids are so out of touch with reality it is unbelievable. A couple of them actually told me once, in all seriousness, that they thought having an office job meant you didn't really have to work, you just got to sit in front of a computer, download MP3s, chat on QQ, maybe take a nap, and collect your paycheck every month! I've actually caught new hires watching movies on the computer in the office, headphones on, laughing it up as if they were at the internet bar or something, making absolutely no attempt whatsoever to hide what they were doing! Shocked Shocked

There may very well be some force at some point that rises up against the government, but it sure as hell isn't going to be this generation of spoiled and braindead college students. Your students who actually have minds of their own will admit to you that college education in China is a huge joke, and any students with real ambition, who are actually interested in getting a real education, will have their sights set abroad. One of those sad facts about teaching at a university here is realizing what a waste it is for most of the students, and realizing how different the concept of higher education is here from what we are used to in the West -- and all this from a country whose culture used to revere education above all else. Truly depressing.
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kev7161



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And why, exactly, IS there a shortage of teachers? Think about this: Most CTs I know teach about 2 lessons a day, then spend a lot of their 12 hour day in the office or watching other teachers teach or go to meetings. My co-teacher teaches ONE class a day, then spends the rest of the day (when I'm not around), supervising the kids in some capacity. When I AM around, she's lazing at her desk (both our desks are in the classroom), playing on the internet, sleeping, going to meetings or watching other teacher's lessons. She often looks bored to tears. I asked her one day if she were to teach more lessons in other classes, would she earn more money. She said yes. I told her she often looked so bored and she really didn't need to stay during my lessons so why not ask for more teaching hours? She wouldn't hear of it - - she didn't WANT to teach any more.

So, back to my point. If these CTs that teach a minimum of periods every day were to teach, I don't know, FOUR classes a day (oh my god, the humanity!) and get paid a bit more, then don't you think most would do that or do you think they prefer sitting at their desks playing online games?
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Malsol



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 1976
Location: Lanzhou

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile

Last edited by Malsol on Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jammish



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 1704

PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No exit, that situation isn't that different to the UK these days. Lots of people are going to University and getting Degrees that are, basically, worthless. And amassing huge debts in the process. Our government has announced that it wants 50% of people to go to Uni. Yet people like plumbers are in massive shortage (and can charge exorbitant rates because of that). It is nuts.
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NathanRahl



Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 509

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, well this type of elitism is nothing new, however china has perfected it to an art form it seems.

Every kid wants to go to college, yet not everyone is cut out for academics, office jobs, etc. etc. This simple fact seems to have missed the chinese entirely.

I would have to say that their large unemployment is due to denial of this very fact, and their heavily elitist attitudes in general.

Now yes other countries have elitism, american, canada, england, especilly england, however, these countries also see the wisdom and need for blue collar, well trained workers. Anyhone can be a pack mule, doing hard labor, which is what a lot of these recent college grads will end up doing. It is too bad though that they dont see the value, and the level of skill and training required to do many of these jobs, jobs they often feel are beneath them.

Plumbers may be branded as proverbial slobs and uneducated, but they make more money then American teachers, and a great deal of your midle clas in the states. The chinese need a reality check, and not just about trade work like plumbing. Auto mechanics are in huge demand in china, yet there is also a huge shortage. I have seen those who do the work puzling over manuals, trying to figure out what to do next. Clearly many of these folks have no actual training, yet have taught themselves to a certain degree of proficiency. Just anther part of the elitist problem going on in china.

The chinese will not become truly developed until they wake up to the truth that, to build a better, more stable country, they need a more well balanced, and stable workforce, skilled in al areas of endeavor.

Theres an old saying, "Majoring in philosophy gives you time to think deep thoughts about being unemployed." And you hve one heck of a big country where far to many of them want to be Confucious.
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Steppenwolf



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teaching no longer is just a service the government provides to its youngest citizens - it has become a huge cashcow that's being financed by the public (taxpayers). This is analogous to the situation in many European countries, but in China the market forces are still somewhat raw and untamed: a largely agrarian society in the recent past didn't require tertiary institutions of learning; studying at a university was reserved for the politically-pliant elite. Now education is within reach of even country bumpkins provided they have the means to enrol; you no longer need to be descendant of parents belonging to the right class. Thus there is now an overdemand for study places and too few universities and colleges that can handle the influx. To some extent, foreign universities have been the last resort for many though few had the linguistic skills and mental alertness to actually benefit from those offers.
Students too don't really want to flood the job market; they would much rather postpone "going out into society" as they put it. They feel sheltered and protected; they know it's a dog-eat-dog world out there. That's why so many remain in the learning phase even though they show very little interest in their subjects.
The degreed but jobless jobseekers are not the biggest problem; many settle for lower-skilled jobs. The long-term problem is that they will hone no practical skills and remain trainees with little hope to climb any company career ladder. They haven't even learnt that loyalty may pay off. They go for PAY, not for job quality or job stability. This is an opportunistic generation!
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