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wages: How low can it go?
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Will.



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 783
Location: London Uk

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:37 am    Post subject: wages: How low can it go? Reply with quote

Well stone me,

Once again the professionalism of the industry of EFL ejects another offer of such magnificence I am inclined to present it for all of you.

Following the standard requests from many (recently by PM and other email) regarding working and living in London and the UK here is the latest offering


"We are currently looking for a General English Teacher to work in the evenings 6-9pm. Immediate start is possible.


The starting rate for CELTA qualified teacher is 7.00 per hour."

A whopping 105 a week and you probably only get paid for teaching time, no prep and no breaks, and pay for your own coffee too.

So where can you live on that income? I bet they don't teach this on the CELTA course or any other.

Is this the lowest we can get or do you know one that is lower. Let us see what the new crop of spring and summer courses will bring
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Candid Kandura



Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 10
Location: EUROPE

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one, Will. Or rather, not so nice. Could you let us/me know where you found the advert? And which school is it, advertising such wonderful rates??!!

PM me if you prefer; but I know of somebody who would be very interested in your information - Sandy!!

Incidentally, I was earning seven quid an hour teaching EFL in London in ... 1992!!
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Robski



Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 50
Location: Middle Europe

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Will.

Dear Will. Answer: very low. We're one up from a cleaner, 10 down from a secretary who is probably on a salary, and paid less then either.

See my piece on TWIN.

At the summer centre I worked at it was worse:

Each teacher was paid for a session. A session was 4 45-min lessons, put into two double periods of 90 minutes. Grear marketing technique as studenst would have 4 lessons (????) But the teacher received (I think it was) 16.50 per session; sounds like a lot, eh? But that's for 18 minutes of teaching at 5.50 an hour. So, minimum wage for the 180 minutes, but then who supervises the kids in the breaks - free labour.

The accomodation wasn't free either - teachers had to pay. This was despite the fact that TWIN were not charged for accomodation provided for staff. So, TWIN even charged for the privilege to work for them.

Crooks. How low can a company sink?
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Will.



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 783
Location: London Uk

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:05 pm    Post subject: cleaning up Reply with quote

The insulting thing in all this is that delivered through my door today came a leaflet offering cleaning services at...


Wait for it......


Yes....

you have guessed it.....


Even more that an EFL teacher with a CELTA can receive from this school in West London


At 8 an hour

Why do we even bother to get an education?
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SueH



Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 1022
Location: Northern Italy

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the cases quoted I think we're worse off than cleaners as I've never known one with prep time, and you can make 7 an hour at it as well.

I still haven't had answered my question as to who actually takes these jobs?
I had a welcome career change a few years ago in 2002 and did the CELTA part time. On finishing it I scrabbled around for jobs but even in a local private school in the SE I got 12 (after being offered 11).

I can only asume it's people desperate for experience - it certainly can't the money. Even if it's just for 'pin money' I can't see the local well-off spouses being prepared to be ripped off like that. Easier to take the cleaning job or a bar job. If it's an evening job on top of your day job to help pay the mortgage the same still applies.

Incidentally Will, any idea how much they are charging the students?
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Phil_b



Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 239
Location: Back in London

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to remember being offered 200/week for a summer school which charged the Ss 400 a week....

So...... I wouldn't be able to afford myself.......


That was last year - I did a summer school in FE instead for double that and a lot less teaching
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poof



Joined: 23 May 2005
Posts: 161

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's only 3 hrs in the evening, so what can you expect? It seems that the only people who can afford to take these posts are people already living in London looking to supplement their income.

The whole payscale for ESL teachers in the UK is pretty dire. Same for anyone teaching kindergarten in the UK. Nothing much over GBP1000 per month. I've been contemplating teaching here, but the compensation is a non-starter. If you want a full time teaching job with sufficient income, it seems the only way to go is to get a PGCE.

Realistic living expenses in the UK these days: 100 per week for rent; up to 100 per month for public transport; 200 per month for food; 20% for tax. That adds up to about a minimum living expense of 1000 per month.
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peekay



Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen several London jobs (not just evening ones) advertised at 7.50 per hour.

Public sector pays more (up to 25 an hour at some places, which does include prep time but you don't get holidays) but the amount of paperwork and stress is much higher.

I know a cleaner who gets 20 an hour. I think I'm in the wrong job....
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TheLongWayHome



Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: San Luis Piojosi

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I were in London I would look for a cleaning job. If the cleaning job falls through, you can always teach EFL while you're looking for another cleaning job. Might even get back what you shelled out on the TEFL course. Happy job hunting.
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Dedicated



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 719
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:28 pm    Post subject: Wages - how low can it go? Reply with quote

Just spotted in today's free Metro newspaper :

[/quote] English Teachers required for London's largest EFL school. Qualifications and experience not essential Preliminary unpaid training given 9.30am to 5.30pm from 3rd March - 7th March. Paid work commencing 10th March. Teaching hours Monday to Friday inclusive, 10.30am to 8.30pm (ie. 10 hours)

Starting salary 7.71 per hour
Quote:


If anybody is interested in this slave labour, please pm me for contact details!!
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coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1831

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok ok, but I don't quite get why you all keep going on about the lowest paid jobs (5.50 per hour, 7.00 per hour). There are plenty of TEFL jobs in London paying 10-11 per hour or more; not great, I realise, but better than moaning on about the worst holes.
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SueH



Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 1022
Location: Northern Italy

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simple economics, or otherwise known as 'a race to the bottom', 'bad driving out good' or a number of other ways of describing the fact that bad employers have a competitive advantage when there is no regulation.
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coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1831

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree to some extent. I would suggest, however, getting the details of which schools are accredited by the British Council (check their web site 'Education in the UK'

http://www.britishcouncil.org/learning-learn-english-uk.htm

). Because they are supposed to have some standards beyond the Minimum Wage, they are likely to pay more for their teachers. This isn't guaranteed but I found it useful when I went looking for work in London. Again, I'm only talking about approximately 11 an hour, but it's better than the horrible examples that have been given.

Another driving economic force, as well as employers' rapacity is the size and comparative skills of the workforce. Any graduate with a teaching qualification of a few weeks duration, from the UK or any other English speaking country, can be a teacher. And I can't speak for the other countries, but the UK now admits many more people to its universities than it ever did. So, you have a lot of graduates about and those who want to do a graduate job but are struggling elsewhere - especially those attracted by travel - gravitate to TEFL.
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Will.



Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 783
Location: London Uk

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From today's offerings in The Wen

Just so we do not forget the value placed upon our qualification, here is
another " established further education college in Wimbledon "
recruiting CELTA qualified or equivalent TEFL teachers for 7 per hour.
I browsed a college website after seeing their ad for teachers. Nearly all the teachers were non-native and their contributions to the site i.e their 'abstracts' contained errors a teacher should not have made...and this on their main website advertising their'college'
I agree that checking schools with the BC or any other list is an essential for us all. Perhaps a new list...of non-schools could be organised. Anyone at the Home Office interested????
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TheLongWayHome



Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 1016
Location: San Luis Piojosi

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coledavis wrote:
I'm only talking about approximately 11 an hour, but it's better than the horrible examples that have been given.

But what's the difference in lifestyle between 7 and 11 quid an hour? Yeah, maybe you'd think twice about going back to cleaning. The students are always much nicer in a 7 quid an hour school - they're as poor as you - even though they think you earn a fortune. Students in an 11 quid school have all been sent by daddy from China and the surrounding area.
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