Job Discussion Forums

[daodejing]

So I was just reading a "horror story" and many posters were saying that teaching on a tourist visa is really bad.

I met with a school in Shanghai last week and they told me they had part-time position available, teaching 5 hours per week in the evenings and they can't get me a visa. They said their other part-time, foreign teachers have a work visa from their full-time-job company. The person that inverviewed me knows that I'm on a tourist visa and wants to sign a contract with me next week. She says she'll look into getting me a visa but it's not likely.

The situation is this: I'll leave the country and come back this week, so I'll then have another 90 days on the second entry of my tourist visa. I'd like to find a job--teaching or otherwise--before the visa runs out in early June. My money situation is not bad; I have money in the bank but I'd rather start earning some money right away. So should I just forget about this part-time job and find something else? Thanks.

[eslstudies]

It's illegal, and could see you deported.
You can take your chances on that.

[Laoshi1950]

Working on a Tourist Visa is illegal in any country - and it is illegal here in China too.

You are the one in trouble if you are caught illegally working by the PSB Immigration Police.

You should have a Work Visa and Foreigner Residence Permit to work legally in China.

[Steppenwolf]

And what's the point about signing a contract with your part-time employer since any such contract is legally unenforceable?

[james s]

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[A'Moo]

This is a subject that comes up with frightening regularity. And I am not sure anyone has answered it satisfactorily. I definitely could not. One thing I will say is that many people go on about "what if you were working without a proper visa in your own country?".... China is not our own country,comparisons are impossible. It probably comes down to supply and demand...If you are in Beijing/Shanghai/GZ,where there are a plethora of FT's,with new ones arriving hourly,you don't have much leverage.The authorities will see that,you have no degree,most do,and away with you (I highly doubt incarceration,more cease-and-desist,with the prerequisite fine).....HOWEVER...If you are in a small village,where very few foreigners have tred,you can probably count on being left alone.You are a real commodity there,the locals arent imbecilic,they know you have given up a lot of what you are used to in life to be there,and that you are the best choice for their children...And the ONLY choice,as far as that coveted foreign face goes....

[clark.w.griswald]

[james s]

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[upchuckles]

China Visa Service for ESL Teachers Z-Visa.Com

Come to the USA and work on a tourist visa.. Then once you're caught ask yourself if it was worth it.. Our jails are cleaner.. Comparing it to ones own country is a reasonable analogy as this question concerns laws and enforcement of those laws.. America may enforce its laws, but in a predictable way.. China is predictable only in the sense that it services the Chinese party who profits the most.. has the most relationships and almost never the foreigner whos ignorance of immigration law is by no means an adequate defence for breaking the law..

I had a tumor on my foot once, and found out if I go to enough Doctors, that in time, I could get the answer I was looking for. . as it turned out.. all the other Drs were right..

Keep asking the question you intuitively should know the answer to already.. Eventually you'll get the answer you want.. then when the shiit hits the fan, make another post here inquiring what to do..

PS> If you agree to work for this school insist on no contract and getting paid at the end of each day. This is attainable and reasonable. At the very least each week so your chance of getting screwed is minimized..

Hahahahahaha!

[Anda]

.If it is a private institute set up then no way. Um, I know someone that came to China for a government job on a tourist visa, the first school registered him straight off with the local police, then he got handed along to a second school who didn't register him quick enough and was school was asked to pay a 5,000 RMB fine. It got sorted out for less. This was between government departments and it was three months before the said teacher had a teaching visa.

Teacher is still here and doing okay. But take a lesson from this and don't even dream of doing it in the private sector

You have to register straight away here with the police if you are working somewhere; this is plain and simple, this is regardless of visa type; meaning tourist or work visa.

[daodejing]

Thanks, good points everyone. It looks like it won't be worth the risk.

I agree that in some small towns a foreign teacher may be an asset and won't be bothered. Last place in China where I lived many foreign teachers didn't try to hide the fact that they were missionaries. They were a real asset to the city and no local official would have any incentive to get rid of them.

Comparisons to other countries are difficult. This is way off topic, but in the US there isn't a huge effort to crack down on illegal workers. The illegal worker uses someone else's social security number and no one in the government checks to make sure that the name of the worker matches the name assigned to that number...or how someone could be working in two places at once. The employer gets in trouble the most. If you're on a tourist visa and get paid in cash no one will find out you're working illegally...but that should go for China as well.

I don't think an American would be sent to a Chinese prison and have to eat cockroaches or something, but would probably face deportation.

[erinyes]

I personally know a lady who was imprisoned! The school was in the process of getting a visa, but she started a little early. I can't imagine what would have happened the cops thought she was doing it intentionally. She was kept and questioned for about 48 hours, but then they let her go.

I think she also cried a lot and I think someone took pity on her (a single mother with 2 kids) and let her go without too much fuss.

[clark.w.griswald]

Erinyes hopefully that case is the exception. I am sure that there are a few such cases around but generally speaking a fine and deportation are the course of action for most westerners. Illegal workers from other countries are not always so lucky.

Quite clearly working illegally is not in any teacher's best interests. Sure you can get away with it and some do for many years, but its not until something bad happens that you find how important it is to have been working legally. If you are the victim of a crime, an unscrupulous employer, an accident etc. you may find that you are deported quicker than you can resolve those issues, and if you have a relationship with a local or even just a nice little set up for yourself, it may become more and more difficult over time to have that yanked away from you.

[jeffinflorida]

I think if you are working illegally you should still have a contract.

Legality aside, the contract spells out the agreement you have with the school / employer and you have a document that details what you agree upon.

With a contract you have something in writing that says you agree to work so many hours for so much money and on so many days.

Even if you are a scab worker you need a contract to avoid any "Misunderstandings" with your employer - it will make your relationship much smoother.

Imagine you are working without any written agreements and after a few months you or the employer may forget what you originally agreed on.

Get a contract, even if you are teaching on a tourist or f visa.

[A'Moo]