Job Discussion Forums

[chopstix]

I might be leaving to Hong Kong after a lot of thinking and hard decision making. I have only been teaching for a few years but the NET Program seems to be quite good in terms of salary/benefits and professional development opportunities. I have lived in Taiwan for a few years and really love living here but....financial commitments back home have forced me to look at Hong Kong- which really isn't so bad as I have had a blast in HK three different times before! I was just beginning to feel comfortable at communicating in Mandarin at a basic level and am hoping there are places to continue study in Hong Kong. I am wondering if anyone out there has lived in both places and can give me an idea as to how much more 'life' costs in Hong Kong for a single person who enjoys night life and socializing. I would be a little over 35,000 HK ( 142,000 NT) and guess that this would be like making 95,000 NT ( 23,500 HK) because of the higher cost of living. Am I in the right ballpark here?

[Serious_Fun]

I made the move from Taiwan because of my desire to return to the "public school" environment; I was tired of the buxiban world, although I was living quite well and saving a decent amount each month.

Housing costs.the insanity.
What NT$10,000 (~US$ 300) will get you in most of Taiwan will cost you HK$12,000 (~US$ 1530) here.

I have been told that I should budget on another HK$2000 for utilities (A.C. only at night).

so:

Taiwan (for a newbie TEFLer without quals)

NT$600/hr X 100 hours/mo. = NT$60,000 - housing @ NT$10,000 = NT$50,000 = ~US$1500

HK (for a newbie TEFLer without quals)

HK$20,000/mo. (full time work) - housing @ HK$12,000 = HK$8000 = ~US$1000



more work for less money after housing costs are paid.


daily costs are approx. the same in my opinion. (food/drink/laundry/toiletries/transport).

If you want to move to HK in order to beat Taiwan's income potential, then you must be earning more than HK$30,000/mo.

That seems to be the low-end of the NET pay scale (including housing allowance), which may have been increased recently with the civil servant pay increase. It is not that difficult to find work at that end of the scale if you have some quals and experience.

I look forward to any corrections to my calcs - after all, I am a total newbie to HK...and a clown in any case. ...and a damned poor clown at that.

[dandan]

The flaw in your calculations is that there is absolutely no need to spend anywhere near HK$12,000 for housing in Hong Kong. You can, of course, but there's certainly no need to.

[Serious_Fun]

[Horizontal Hero]

Visiting HK and living here are totally different ball games. I also had a blast when I used to visit here. So I didn't appreciate the psychological aspect of living here. It is a lot more rigid and robotic than Taiwan, and I found culture shock much greater. A lot more work pressure, and the culture is bordering on joyless. I did say "bordering". I have worked in two schools as a NET, and the first was absolutely without joy. The English Dept. was nicknamed "The House of Pain" by the other members. You could not imagine the sheer soullessness of that place, and the robotic curriculum they had. I almost went mad. My second school is much better, though. I actually like it here, although the work is far from fascinating. But I am in the New Territitories - way out, in fact. So things are a little more easy going here. Many NETS avoid these regions (my school could not get a NET, except for me). But you should seriously consider it. But it all depends upon the school. You will likely have a better social life the closer you get to the island, but the pace of life and stress may be greater.

You are right about the financial side. It is quite good, and only seems to get better. In fact the deal for newbies is much better now! You will start about 2 or 3 points up the scale from where I did for the same experience (which I think is totally outrageous, but I shall say no more on that). There is a retention incentive which means you get a 5 % bonus for the second contract, and 10% for the second - on top of the 15% gratuity you get at the end of the contract. i.e. NETs who are in their third contract basically get 25% extra on top of their base salary. So you can end up earning quite a bit of cash. The NETs here who are 3rd contract or further and at the top of the pay scale must be laughing. They must be bringing in something like 70-80 000 a month if you include the end of contract gratuity.

BTW I really miss Taiwan. It has an innocence you just cannot find in HK, and is refreshingly free of the brainwashing cultural/political BS you find in mainland China.

[hkteach]

Well said HH - I couldn't agree more with your Para. 1, in fact it sounds identical to my experience.
Friends oooohed and aaaahed when I said I'd got a job in HK (their experience of HK was as tourists in Central, Stanley and TST ) When I got here, the culture shock was such that I felt as though I'd been hit in the face by a shovel.... old ladies just pushing me out of the way, people coming towards me and apparently prepared to walk straight through me, people walking along the street or through MTR station while reading their books - totally oblivious to anyone and everyone else, the sheer numbers of people everywhere and oh the noise! I got used to it (or as used to it as a 'foreigner' can become) but some things still continue to amaze me.

"Joyless" is a good word to describe the place and much of the populace. I also use "heartless" and "cruel" because that's certainly how it must be for kids who attend school for 7 or 8 hours and then go to tutorial centres for more of the same and/or grapple with 3 hours homework every night and a full schedule of lessons over the holidays.
Fun seems to be a dirty word and those indulging in any aspect of same on a regular basis are 'lazy' (another popular adjective here and applied to anyone who takes more than 2 weeks of their 6 week summer holiday or who doesn't live and breathe work 24/7. So I dare say Taiwan is a bit less intense (haven't been there but it would HAVE to be).

As most expats everywhere would agree, support networks are very important and that's definitely the case here. If you're single, you need to establish some networks and contacts if HK is to be a good experience.

I'm one of those NETs at top of scale with 10% retention incentive but not really on 70k-80k a month... the total might seem like that, but the gratuity (apparently in lieu of employer contributions to pension/superannuation) really only pays your income tax due at the end of your contract (tax rate = 16% and gratuity is 15% of salary including the gratuity itself so don't go counting the gratuity as a freebie. After paying your tax bill you're not left with much of a gratuity at all.)

[dodgee]

A single here with a very full social life - usually out 4 times a week . HK is great for that! Much better socially than Japan which I still greatly enjoyed. Housing costs are steep but you choose your place and the cost. I live in Tsing Yi - 10 minutes to work, 15-20 minutes to LKF, 15 minutes to the airport and pocket almost half my living allowance for a nice place. I save about $2000 US a month despite my social life and lots of nice holidays with cheaper tickets due to HK being an International hub. At the work place I work damn hard but that just makes the day go faster. I have a couple of friends here who used to teach in Taiwan and they rave about how their lives have improved in HK and they have plenty of outlets to continue their mandarin speaking.

[hkteach]

Hey dodgee,
Where in Tsing Yi can you get a decent apartment for half the housing allowance (of 12950) ? Are you in a small, one bedroom place or perhaps a village house ?

I was considering TY and checked out a few places a couple of weeks ago but found that a good-sized 2 bedroom apartment in a TY complex with pool, gym etc. was upwards of 10k. The one I liked best was 13000k - lucky I missed out on that one, hey?
The agent said that because TY is a transport hub, people are prepared to pay for the location.
But I'm interested to know where you can get a place for half the allowance.
Thanks

[chopstix]

as always I really appreciate the responses....I do have my reservations about leaving Taiwan- I have lived in Seoul and Japan as well and Taipei has been hands down the best place so far... but I think in terms of professional development and financially Hong Kong will be good for me. I calculated my income to be a 37,000 HK a month (with housing inc.) so SHOULD be able to save sth- even though like Dodgee I am single and enjoy an active social life.
I am hoping to pay somewhere around 9,000 HK for a single place in the Kowloon/Kowloon Tong area. Is this possible or am I dreaming????

[hkteach]

Hi chopstix,
"Kowloon" is a big geographical area - actually a district - which has a lot of 'suburbs' (but they're not called that here). Like anywhere else (suburbs of London, Sydney or LA) there is a huge variation between these places from Shek Kip Mei and Yau Ma Tei to the more upmarket Kowloon Tong.
While it may be very possible to get a place in some of the more downmarket parts of Kowloon, you might not want to live in the accommodation or indeed the area.
Kowloon Tong is a transport hub, is reasonably close to HK island and also the gateway to the northern New Territories, has several international and private schools (as well as 'elite' government schools) and is a 'university suburb' all of which combine to make it a place to live (both foreigners and locals alike).
But it's expensive compared to the places around it and also compared to many other places in Hong Kong. For what you'd pay for a decent apartment in Kowloon Tong, you could get bigger and better with full facilities (clubhouse with pool, gym and perhaps shuttle bus) somewhere else not too far away.

While Kowloon Tong offers transport options that serve most parts of Hong Kong and thus making travel relatively easy, I'd strongly suggest that you wait till you know where you'll be working before deciding where you want to live. That way, you can choose an area that's still convenient to your work as well as your 'playing zones', but at a cheaper rent.

[hkteach]

Correction........... that bit about Kowloon Tong should read ".......all of which combine to make it a desirable place to live (for foreigners and locals alike)" I'm sure you got the gist anyway but just clarifying.
Cheers

[Smoog]

[Shakhbut]

Smoog, are you serious? You're a NET, right? 11 hours a week? I take it this is an unusual arrangement.

[Serious_Fun]

[11:59]