Job Discussion Forums

[Gary B]

Wha'z up?
I was wondering how the international tensions between Iraq and the U.S. and North Korea and the U.S. has affected your classes, especially for those teaching overseas? I'm currently in the States and I'm sure the slant that we get from the media is completely different than probably anywhere else in the world. I'm just curious if and how the current situation in international relations, or should I say the current disfunctional international relations has affected your classes as well as how you are perceived in the country you're currently teaching in?
Chow for Now,
Interested In Other Perspectives Other Than What We Are Fed In The States From Motown Gary B.

[johnslat]

Dear Gary B,
No real affect on my classes yet, here in the Kingdom. Oh, the subject ( Iraq ) HAS come up, but since I honestly disagree totally with President Bush's plans, I don't have to " fib " in my responses. No animosity that I've detected so far. I had one student, a matawa ( very religious ) type, beard and all, bring up the subject of why Americans " hated " Saudis so much. I explained to him that perhaps the fact that 15 of the 19 terrorists who participated in the WTC atrocity were from the Kingdom might have something to do with it. He replied it hadn't " been proven " that there had actually been 15 Saudis involved. I responded that he'd have to take that issue up with Prince Abdullah and Prince Naif, both of whom had finally admitted that 15 of the terrorists had indeed come from Saudi Arabia ( after months of denial on that subject ). But it was all done without any heat or rancor. He then asked me if I knew any " terrorists " in the Kingdom. I answered - " Ah, besides yourself, you mean? " , which got a laugh from him and the rest of the class. I wouldn't try such dialogue with every " matawa " type, but this guy was unusual - very smart and a good sense of humor. Generally speaking, the atmosphere here is, I'd say, a little more " tense " than normal, but how much of that is self-induced is hard to say. As for the future, once the invasion starts and when that " military government " is in place, well, who can say? But if that's how it all works out, I strongly suspect Westerners, American especially, are not going to be very popular in this part of the world.
Regards,
John

[guru]

we are all nervous here but have been quite anxious since the riots in 98

from Jakarta

[johnslat]

Dear Gary B,
Sorry, I omitted something in my previous post. I should have mentioned that, first, I explained to the " matawa " student that his " generalized perception " was wrong, that ALL Americans did not " hate Saudis ", any more than all Saudis " hated Americans ". I did concede that there were some in America who probably felt that way, but that many/most, in my opinion, knew better than to make such sweeping generalizations. Then, I explained that those who did feel animosity towards Saudis were almost certainly basing their feeling on the fact that 15 of the 19 WTC terrorists were from the Kingdom.
Regards,
John

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Dear GaryB and others:

As a rule, I generally try to avoid any involvement in political discussions here on Dave's, but your question is a valid one, insofar as it relates to the classroom ... so I will try to answer you as honestly and frankly as I can.

First, I am an American. I have been teaching English abroad now for 14 years, in a variety of countries and on several continents, both in Asia and in Europe.

Gary: I love my country. I really do. Having said that, it causes me GREAT pain to admit that the arrogance of George Bush (and his team of inept foreign policy advisors) has plunged the image of The United States to an ALL TIME LOW. So low, in fact, that I often feel compelled to lie about my nationality when questioned by strangers, taxi drivers, etc.

I lie about my nationality not because I sense any real danger, but because I am ashamed of this arrogant "to-hell-with-the-rest-of-the-world-we'll-do-what-we-damned-well-please" attitude that we have adopted since 9.11. Pretty strong stuff, but that's how I really feel about it.

With my students, it's a totally different matter. I am 'accepted' as an individual, and my nationality has not impacted in any way on my ability to be a respected, effective, well-liked teacher.

Thankfully, most people of the world still differentiate between the American government ... and its people.

And finally, a quote from one of our own, which sums up my feelings very well: "I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong."
- Abraham Lincoln


RegardsAsAlways,
kEnT

One footnote: I'm not interested in debating this. It's just too personal ... for me to allow myself to get into the middle of any 'tit-for-tat' exchanges on this topic, so this will be my first and last post on the topic. Hope you understand.

[WorkingVaca]

How about the affect in the teacher's room? The resident Christian conservative at my workplace keeps agitating people with little notes on the bulletin board about how attacking Iraq will achieve vengence for the victims of 9-11 (White House PR), a position he knows very well most people in the teacher's room don't share. Of course somebody scribbles the unoriginal "F-You" next to the note and the obnoxious bickering and tiresome debates begin. Meanwhile I'm just trying to figure out how to teach the Future Perfect and find some benign conversation topic to bring to class.

I'm not at all comfortable discussing politics and ideologies with people I hardly know, let alone co-workers. It only creates more tension on the job, the last thing anybody needs. It goes for the people I agree with, too. Pontificating out loud in a room where people are trying to work--no matter what the position--is obnoxious and annoying.

[Gary B]

Wha'z up
Good point workingvaca about the conversations interferring with relations among co-workers. I didn't mean for this to be a debate about the upcoming war, but was wondering how ESL instructors are being treated overseas by people on the streets as well as by the students. I heard that there were a few thousand protesters against the war in Japan, but the Japanese government supports the March 17TH deadline. I'm curious how these type of events affect the classroom. I teach in the Detroit area and all of the students are Latinos with the exception of one woman from Yemen so we haven't really talked about the situation that much. Anyway responses about this issue from around the world would be interesting and informative since the perception in the States is obviously much different and very one-sided.
Chow for Now,
Looking For World Perspectives In Motown Gary B.

[Albulbul]

"Overseas" is a construct that exists only in your imagination. The world outside the US of A is a big and very diverse place.

To imagine that there are two places on Planet Earth : USA and non-USA is a strange way to look at the world.

[cafebleu]

Hi Gary B,

I am not an American (although I am in no way anti-American and can to some extent understand why the US Government thinks the way it does even if I don`t support its invasion of Iraq) but as a native English speaker I find it interesting to hear my Japanese students opinions of the US Government`s planned invasion of Iraq.

My policy with this issue, as with any political issue, is to let students bring up the topic. I don`t think teaching English gives one the right to hold forth on politico-social topics in the classroom as it is easy for misunderstandings to occur between the teacher and the students in this situation.

I also think that many of the non-western cultures we work in do not have the same kind of free airing of opinions, especially on politico-social topics. Some of these cultures actively discourage their people from thinking about and debating issues of these kinds. Even in a more democratic non-western country such as Japan, being able to articulate why one thinks in a certain way and being able to conduct discussions and debate with others about many issues is a non-starter.

That is, a non-starter in Japanese people`s every day lives. Therefore if English teachers in Japan try to incorporate such issues into class, they will usually find ignorance, apathy, embarrassment or misunderstanding of the discussion starter`s intentions. The express purpose of the Japanese education system is to teach the Japanese people `how to be Japanese` from pre-school age up. Yes, it is brainwashing and at times can be a little sinister and more befitting an authoritarian society. But that is the reality.

However. some students have wanted to talk about the US-Iraq situation with me. I have listened and have not contradicted them. I have merely said that the US is worried about the `balance of power` in the world and it was a good opportunity to teach some usual newspaper English.

[Gary B]

Wha'z up?
Albulbul, I didn't mean to sound ethnocentric. The whole point is, living in the States you get the impression from the media, politicians, and public policy officilals that there are only two worlds, "us" and "them". I don't agree with this attitude at all which is why I was curious of what the "buzz" is in the streets and classrooms around the world. As an American currently living in the States I do use the term "overseas" from a geographical perspective and since we often use terms like "teaching English abroad" as opposed to teaching English in a native English speaking country. Cafebleu, you're absolutely right in the fact that different cultures handle different issues differently including international relations. In my teaching experience at a university in Ecuador, I now realize I was probably too open in talking about local political issues, but being from the States, universities are SUPPOSED TO BE free for open debates.
Chow for Now,
Being Politically Incorrect From Motown Gary B.

[Capergirl]

@cafebleu
I've had the same situation with students wanting to discuss the possibility of a war in Iraq. One of the classes I teach is a multicultural conversation class and we discuss many "hot" topics. However, this issue is a little different, as we have some students from the middle east as well as some employees from an American oil company in our group. They really wanted to discuss this topic in class, though, so I finally told them it was fine as long as things did not get heated...and that I would not participate in the conversation in any way (which I rarely do anyway except to moderate). It is such a sensitive topic that I was a bit nervous at the onset, but they ended up having a very good discussion about war in general. It turned out to be a great class.

[phis]

The only problem here in Indonesia is that the Western media is painting a truly false impression of the country. I don't know what the reaction will be if war does begin in the Middle East, but up to now I have found people here be be 'moderate' in their attitude.

There are hotspots, for example Jakarta and Solo, which seem to 'erupt' at the slightest provocation. But Indonesia is a VAST country with thousands of islands, and in the most part we don't have any more problems than in other parts of the world.

I have been living in North Sumatera for the past 8 months and I have never felt threatened or frightened in any way. I was more concerned in Spain, where the terrorist organisation ETA have bombs exploding on a regular basis. Nobody seems to be telling people 'not to go to Spain for their holidays'!

[Seth]

I've been calling myself Canadian more and more lately. I'm embarrassed by the Bush administration, especially after some sad gits decided to rename French fries 'Freedom fries.' Things are really getting rediculous over there. The Chinese government has taken a certain (albeit fairly quiet) stance on the Iraq issue. And being China, most people here have the same viewpoint. Usually the only people who ask me about the US and Iraq are cab drivers, once I tell them I'm American. I've never gotten angry responses, though, as I don't think most Chinese are politically savvy, nor openly hostile. The most heated reponses I've seen were from some of my 10 year old students, oddly enough.
However, a lot of Chinese around here are afraid of the US. I've heard more than once that some Chinese are afraid to live in Shanghai because they're afraid it would be bombed if China runs foul of the US. Back when 911 happened there was an American teaching at my school who left to return home. Some said they seriously thought that he went home because hell was about to break loose and bombs would fall on Luoyang! While I'm sure this level of paranoia doesn't exist in most places, I'm sure some countries (most notably N. Korea) are quite afraid of US power, even moreso now with Bush at the helm.

That being said, being outside of the US, you never really quite know what to expect! Every country has a collective consciousness of memories and experiences that's unique to it alone, it takes a while to tap into it to see how they see.

[omar805]

When North Korea fired missiles into the Sea Of Japan, Western leaders described it as a provocative act. In the past 48 hours, the U.S.A. has tested the "Mother of all Bombs". My students have asked, "is this also a provocative act?"
Has anyone had any classroom comments about these 2 events?

[richard ame]

Hi Readers
So far so good over here in Turkey,although it's on the front line if the baloon goes up I have personally experienced very little hostility towards me or others I know ,however, I'm a Brit which may make a difference. The few Yanks who cross my path are quite low key about their nationality and do not have anything to say which could be deemed patriotic about the senstive issue of Iraq. Although this is a Muslim country the people generally are only concerned about the long term fall out after the war (if it happens) and are not pro Saddam ,I think they are aware as long as this guy is around things are going to be difficult for them and some have even suggested that the U.N should be a lot more united in their decisions about wether to go in or go back home .Personally it's a no win situation for the forces that are going in to attack or invade Iraq, Saddam is wise enough to know if he uses any banned weapons he will have justified an atttack and Iraq will suffer heavy losses, therefore only token resistance will take place Iraq's people will get slaughted in huge numbers and for what if not a single banned weapon is used or found someone will get a lot of egg on their face that is when the cowpat is really going to hit the fan,according to some of my brighter students . Happy teaching.