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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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 Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:14 pm Post subject: How fast did you learn kana? |
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I learnt the hiragana in two to three days and then the katakana in just one (I spent slightly longer on the hiragana because the stroke orders are slightly more involved, and more use seems to be made of them in Japnese generally); I continued to test myself over the subsequent weeks and months, just to be on the safe side (I was thinking it might've been a bit too crash a course that I'd put myself through). I should mention though that I was reasonably fluent in spoken and written Chinese before coming to Japanese, so I could make use of the historical origins (i.e. derivations from Chinese characters) of the kana.
The main reference that I used was Henshall's A Guide to Learning Hiragana and Katakana.
This question might have some sort of bearing on another thread that I began recently, called 'Alphabet/Phonics related to kana':
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=56764
Last edited by fluffyhamster on Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:21 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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groothewanderer
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| A weekend. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, pretty similar to (in fact slightly faster than) me, then. Did you use any books? Oh, and were you pretty familiar with the sounds of Japanese already (but learning kana is ultimately what gets one REALLY familiar with the sounds). I guess that it would be pretty difficult for somebody just starting out with basic spoken Japanese (in a romaji-based course) to get the kana down pat in days rather than weeks, but then, I hadn't really studied much spoken Japanese before deciding to learn the kana.
Last edited by fluffyhamster on Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Quibby84
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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You can learn them fast, but you can forget them just as fast if you dont use them...(usually the faster you learn something the easier your forget). I am now doing a japanese lesson book and I write all of the answers in Hiragina, I have more trouble with Katakana because you dont use them as much in writing. I also read everything I see even if I dont understand it...this helps it to stick in my mind...
Now I kind of having fun writing hiragana all the time, it is kind of like art...hehe. |
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groothewanderer
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| Wow, pretty similar to (in fact slightly faster than) me, then. Did you use any books? Oh, and were you pretty familiar with the sounds of Japanese already (but learning kana is ultimately what gets one REALLY familiar with the sounds). I guess that it would be pretty difficult for somebody just starting out with basic spoken Japanese (in a romaji-based course) to get the kana down pat in days rather than weeks, but then, I hadn't really studied much Japanese before deciding to learn the kana (I had however studied Chinese, knowing other languages helps in the acquisition of further ones, I guess). |
I used a book from the bookstore. It was the one where the characters looked like pictures. I knew no Japanese beforehand. |
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groothewanderer
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| I think it was kana can be easy. |
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RingofFire
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: How fast did you learn kana? |
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| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| This question might have some sort of bearing on another thread that I began recently, called 'Alphabet/Phonics related to kana': |
It took me a weekend to learn hiragana for a comprehension quiz. It took almost an entire semester, however, to have any functional skill in writing and reading hiragana and katakana.
And since this thread DOES have bearing on another thread, I'll say this: there are really no quick fixes with respect to learning the fundamentals. One thing language teachers must realize is that the time constraints and standards that administration hands down to educators are seldom compatible with the resources and efforts necessary for teachers to teach to those standards and for students to learn enough to meet those standards. |
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Apsara
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 2142
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: |
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It took me about 6 months to learn hiragana, and then 6 months for katakana, but I was a 13-year-old secondary school student in New Zealand and we were only expected to learn at that pace. I'm sure you can do it faster than that!  |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:50 am Post subject: Re: How fast did you learn kana? |
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| RingofFire wrote: |
| And since this thread DOES have bearing on another thread, I'll say this: there are really no quick fixes with respect to learning the fundamentals. One thing language teachers must realize is that the time constraints and standards that administration hands down to educators are seldom compatible with the resources and efforts necessary for teachers to teach to those standards and for students to learn enough to meet those standards. |
Then again, there's no excuse to plod along too slowly or conventionally all the time if faster or more effective methods could be had. |
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Mahik
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:09 am Post subject: |
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3 hours
With this
Great book. |
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RingofFire
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:41 am Post subject: Re: How fast did you learn kana? |
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| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| Then again, there's no excuse to plod along too slowly or conventionally all the time if faster or more effective methods could be had. |
So...if I don't beat your high score then obviously I wasn't playing at my best?
I'm happy you pick up languages so fast, it's truly inspirational. But faster doesn't mean more effective, and sometimes, more effective actually has a lot to do with slower. Don't be that guy that automatically assumes that if it works so well for you, clearly it should work for everybody else.
It's disappointing that some teachers have taken the pro-administration path and have assumed that any student who is "plodding" along automatically requires an excuse. I'd hate to see what happens in those classes where a student's performance doesn't live up to the expectations attached to your faster is better approach. |
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fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| ROF, I appreciate that fast may not mean thorough, but I don't see the harm in doing something snappy and memorable at first to get the students' attention, cos you can really build on something like that; and if students were having problems my first assumption would be that it was due to a fault in the method rather than in the students. Anyway for anyone in any doubt, I am basically talking here in my reply to ROF about my alphabet/phonics-related-to-kana approach, rather than purely in the abstract, and would appreciate further comments on/in the thread that I mentioned in my first post above. |
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RingofFire
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| ROF, I appreciate that fast may not mean thorough, but I don't see the harm in doing something snappy and memorable at first to get the students' attention, cos you can really build on something like that; |
I see a lot of harm in the characterization that "snappy and memorable" is a panacea to the woes faced in the classroom. Add it to the repertoire; every teacher should. But when the conversation is characterized as "how fast did you learn it?", you're creating the very norm-referenced environment that administration pursues. So I didn't learn kana fast enough, does that automatically mean I'm a lesser student or that the teacher is flawed? Are those my only options?
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| and if students were having problems my first assumption would be that it was due to a fault in the method rather than in the students. |
Sadly, that is the word you've chosen, but it has nothing to do with fault. It's just the realities of the classroom. There are any number of circumstances that affect performance and only a handful of them have to do with the effectiveness of the method used. To make the assumption you have made is well-intentioned, but that only explains part of the picture. There are good students paired with good teachers in classrooms that could still have problems. |
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chollimaspeed
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:19 am Post subject: |
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You learnt kana in a few days or a weekend?
Bull Sh i T!
Even if you spent your time reading and writing all of the characters for two days straight you won't have learnt all of them. You won't be able to sit down and read everything in katakana or hiragana. You won't be able to ..................
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
B u l l s h it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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groothewanderer
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| chollimaspeed wrote: |
You learnt kana in a few days or a weekend?
Bull Sh i T!
Even if you spent your time reading and writing all of the characters for two days straight you won't have learnt all of them. You won't be able to sit down and read everything in katakana or hiragana. You won't be able to ..................
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
B u l l s h it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
It's true. |
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