Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Xian Jiaotong - Liverpool University - any information?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> China (Job-related Posts Only)
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: Back Reply with quote

Sallyman wrote:
I'd like to thank everyone on this thread. One of my friends is working at XJTLU now, and the STORIES are incredible.

I can't say how glad I am that we have this community to warn each other.

We need a UNION!


There are two things to think about when discussing universities that are involved in joint ventures in China: 1. The Chinese call the shots; and 2. These institutions are simply feeding inferior students into pathway programmes in the UK and therefore need to keep a very low-profile. What are the consequences of this?

The main consequence is that the Universities that are involved in these partnerships must keep themselves off the radar. The whole thing is a scam because students with inferior language skills are being fed into cash-strapped universities back in the UK. Students with low IELTS scores are given crash courses, passed, and fed into pathway or presessional programmes where they are again passed and fed into post-graduate courses where they are again passed. The whole "dumbing-down" debate surrounding Higher Education in the UK is a consequence of these dodgy joint-ventures.

The main concern of managers in the ELC's at places like XJTUL is to ensure the operation runs smoothly and they get a good press, which is why the glossy websites are so important. Anything that may shed a negative light on the institution is filtered out before it has a chance to catch fire. A case in point is the whole interview process. Potential employees are vetted not just for qualifications and experience, but also for their views on how things should be done. Loaded questions are given by the interviewer, and if the interviewee gives the wrong answer, he is struck off the list. Basically these joint-ventures are looking for YES MEN, teachers who will shut up and go with the flow, even if what they witness is in their eyes immoral and unethical. Unions and opinionated individuals would have no place in this system. This is fine of course if you are a sycophant, but if you have ideas about education, as many well-qualified teachers do, then you're gonna get frustrated.

I've taught at British Universities in the UK and I've occasionally asked my Chinese students about the reputations of Liverpool and other joint ventures in China. Most have given me the same answer: "They're not very good because they're too easy to get into . . . " I think that one sentence speaks volumes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 8982
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This uni seems good, Granted it just started, but they have lots of teachers and are going to hire a lot more. While they've hired a lot of teachers, they have a core group of teachers that have been there since the beginning-ish.

I'm looking at applying, only thing is they need teachers in August. Still, pay is about 2700 to 4200 usd, plus housing allowance, which is similar to what I make here in Korea (ok, I get more vacation, a lot) but I could save more in China.

Plus, it's China! I'd love to go back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Cyberkada



Joined: 04 Dec 2011
Posts: 306
Location: Xi'an, China

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

naturegirl321 wrote:
This uni seems good, Granted it just started, but they have lots of teachers and are going to hire a lot more. While they've hired a lot of teachers, they have a core group of teachers that have been there since the beginning-ish.

I'm looking at applying, only thing is they need teachers in August. Still, pay is about 2700 to 4200 usd, plus housing allowance, which is similar to what I make here in Korea (ok, I get more vacation, a lot) but I could save more in China.

Plus, it's China! I'd love to go back.

2700 USD to 4200 USD? thats more than most FTs here, I gather
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 8982
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cyberkada wrote:
2700 USD to 4200 USD? thats more than most FTs here, I gather


By here do you mean China or the uni? Because that's the salary they posted on their advert.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

naturegirl321 wrote:
Granted it just started, but they have lots of teachers and are going to hire a lot more.


This works two ways: First, they could be expanding; second, many teachers may be leaving? Only those on the inside will know . . .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 8982
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to their website, they're expanding. They even tell you how many teachers they've had since they've started and tell you how many they've had each year. It'd be pretty simple to find out if teachers are leaving as well. They list them all on their website, so you could check later and see if they're still there. I don't know, might be risky, but they've got about 75 teachers now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

naturegirl321 wrote:
According to their website, they're expanding. They even tell you how many teachers they've had since they've started and tell you how many they've had each year. It'd be pretty simple to find out if teachers are leaving as well. They list them all on their website, so you could check later and see if they're still there. I don't know, might be risky, but they've got about 75 teachers now.


Yes, you never really know . . . and glossy websites can often hide a darker reality underneath. For example, a lot of teachers may have left, but their photos are still live at the website? Whatever the case may be, you won't really know until you start working for them. It may work for you, it may not. You'll never really know until you try . . . and this is where the risk comes in. It's like gambling really.

It wouldn't surprise me if they were expanding. That's the trend at the moment. Many Chinese have entered the ranks of the nouveau riche in recent years and demand their little emperors get an overseas education. Universities in the UK are full of Chinese students. Heaven forbid what'll happen if the Chinese economy goes into a tailspin. It'll sure take British Higher Education down with it, along with other sectors. Scary really.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 8982
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sigh, I know you're right. BUt that's the risk you take with many jobs. I know I'll aks to be put in touch with teachers, but you know they'll never give me the emails of people who aren't happy.

I love my current job, but it's not going to last forever, so I've got a year to find a new one. The economy here in the Land of The Morning Calm is going to crash soon, yes, China will too, but it should take a couple more years. Things here are pretty desperate, salaries haven't gone up in about a decade, but the cost of living has. Plus, there's a huge surplus of teachers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

naturegirl321 wrote:
I love my current job, but it's not going to last forever, so I've got a year to find a new one. The economy here in the Land of The Morning Calm is going to crash soon, yes, China will too, but it should take a couple more years. Things here are pretty desperate, salaries haven't gone up in about a decade, but the cost of living has. Plus, there's a huge surplus of teachers.


If you love your job, why leave? Is there no chance of signing a new contract? If you plan to leave a job that you like for a job that you're unsure about, then this is definitely a big gamble, especially if you're applying to a dodgy outfit like Liverpool. But much of life is a gamble and some win and some lose. You'll never know unless you throw the dice.

You're right about the imminent crash. There are strong indicators that the Chinese economy is going to pop soon. Earlier this week, I saw this alarming report:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article31958.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 8982
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slapntickle wrote:
If you love your job, why leave? Is there no chance of signing a new contract? If you plan to leave a job that you like for a job that you're unsure about, then this is definitely a big gamble, especially if you're applying to a dodgy outfit like Liverpool. But much of life is a gamble and some win and some lose. You'll never know unless you throw the dice.

You're right about the imminent crash. There are strong indicators that the Chinese economy is going to pop soon. Earlier this week, I saw this alarming report:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article31958.html

They'll let me sign one more contract, then I'm gone. I had a baby ergo I'm a bad teacher. that's fine. I knew that my job would be on the line if I got pregnant, I have a beautiful baby girl, so I can deal with that.

Scary about the crash though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaXueSheng wrote:
Not everything in China is as it seems. Milk powder or universities, the label means nothing.


You're right when you say that "not everything in China is as it seems" but wrong when you say the "label means nothing". Outwardly it would seem that Liverpool University are simply running a joint-venture with the Chinese using the prestigious name and heritage of the place to sell degrees. While this is true, it does hide the fact that XJTLU is owned by an American for-profit company named Laureate. The information quoted below is taken from a recent article that appeared in The Independent:

Laureate owns 12 universities outside the USA, including Universidad Europea de Madrid, Ecole Superieure du Commerce Exterieur in France and Cyprus College in Nicosia. And it is famous in Britain for its partnership with Liverpool University which includes an online MBA.

"This is an interesting partnership where both organisations benefit," says Kemp. But the real feather in Liverpool's cap is the university it has created in China in partnership with Laureate and a Chinese institution. The Xian Jiaotong Liverpool University is running degrees closely related to the needs of a massive industrial park in Suchow, near where it is located.

The aim is not to make money for Liverpool University, insists Professor Kelvin Everest, Liverpool's director of academic affairs for China, but to burnish the university's brand and put it on the global map.

"Obviously you don't want to do things that lose money," he says. "But you need to make sure you are operating in a contemporary way and do the things you are there to do, like educating people and carrying out research.

"For us it's been very bracing. It's raised our profile and made us much more visible than we were."


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/higher/from-malaysia-to-mayfair-the-foreign-university-that-is-sending-out-shivers-in-the-higher-education-world-798152.html

When Prof Kelvin Everest states that the aim is not to make money, you can bet your bottom dollar he means the opposite. Laureate is in the business of making money, which is why it has partnered itself with a highly successful brand name: Liverpool. (Think of how many young Chinese people/students for example support Liverpool FC?) XJTLU want to ride on the success of this brand . . . and why not? It's a highly lucrative market.

However, Laureate is tarred with the same brush as other infamous US for-profit educational providers, such as Kaplan, Devry, and Apollo, which own the University of Phoenix.(This American for-profit model by the way has been adopted quite successfully by companies in the private sector in the UK, most notable INTO University Partnerships.) While there is nothing wrong with making money, many are concerned that money has become the raisin d'etre for the existence of these institutions. Of course when you're dealing with material goods such as watches, burgers, and cars people can quite easily make a connection, but when you're selling education the purists, especially the academics, feel something strange is going on. Further, they would argue that where there is lots of money washing around, you'd probably find a scandal nearby. And that's what's been happening in the US since the early 80s when much of the sector was deregulated. Month after month, year after year, American for-profit educational providers have been involved in scandal after scandal. If you do a google and search for "for-profit scandal", you'll receive about 15,400,000 results. This article is typical:

http://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/the_world_view/for_profit_higher_education_scandals_in_the_united_states_international_lessons

Of course as these companies expand their reach overseas the scandals will inevitably follow. This is why schools such as XJTLU have to ensure that no bad press gets out. And here we return to the OP who noted that things in China are not as they seem. For the people working on the inside of places like XJTLU this is undoubtedly true. For them they are caught between a rock and a hard place: Do the right thing and speak out about what they see as wrong, or zip it and take the money and run . . .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
canrun30



Joined: 03 Oct 2012
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any new thoughts/experiences with this university? It's been nearly a year since this post has been commented on. They currently have a position advertised that pays a very decent salary. Just thinking there must be a "catch" somewhere.

As they say...羊毛出在羊身上.

Cheers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 8982
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've talked to a couple people who have worked there and it seems good. I've probably talked to about four people and there's one here Julli4u2. Her husband just started working there in August. Try messaging her.

I'm trying to do the paperwork to get there, but my daughter's birth cert was rejected by the Dept of State Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
canrun30



Joined: 03 Oct 2012
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Two people who graduated from my MA TESOL program last year are now working there as well and seem to be having good experiences, all things considered.

Good luck with the paperwork...visas can be a real pain.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kungfuman



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 1458
Location: In My Own Private Idaho

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it helps I have been to that area - it's about a 40 minute bike ride from my apartment.

That area is a bit remote from the city center but it's not so bad.

They recently opened an Auchan that could be described as about 20 minutes from the school via a bike or bus.

There isn't much in that Area. A McDonalds, kfc, bowling alley, church, and some parks. In the Dushu area there are no major supermarkets - some small ones. Lots of restaurants and thousands of students.

If you have an ebike or bike getting to the city isn't so bad. if you rely on public transportation it will indeed suck. My estimate is a taxi cost about 50 rmb to the city center and maybe 80 to the train station.

On a positive note, there is maybe a dozen schools out there. And there is a restaurant area called Li Gong Di that has many good eats and some clubs.

If you want to live off campus commuting is doable- even if you choose to live closer to the city center.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> China (Job-related Posts Only) All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC