Job Discussion Forums

[fancynan]

Hello.
There are some experienced people on this forum and I hope to glean some useful information from you! I would like to take a course in France and stay to work there. I have narrowed it down to TEFL International in Mauzac (near Bordeaux) or the TTCP TEFL Paris course in Tournan En Brie. I have also read about Transfer Paris, in case anyone has good info on that. I am considering taking an August or September course (2007) to be ready for the school year. I understand that CELTA is more recognized than a TEFL certificate, but I like the course material better in the TEFL offerings and want to be able to work with young learners or adults.

Before the questions, here is some info about me: I am 53 yrs old, have dual citizenship (British) so can live and work legally, hold a BA and an MBA (International Management), but do not have a teaching degree or formal teacher training. I work as a manager for a volunteer program and conduct training for volunteers on general and specific topics. I am ready (or rather, will be next year) to make a life change. I will begin tutoring in a refuge program (ESL) next month. I have had a decades long desire to live in France and I am ready to grab for the brass ring. I also wanted to be an English teacher years ago, but veered off in another direction. Now is my chance to remedy that.

And, finally, the questions:
Do you have an opinion or knowledge about the courses in France and a recommendation of which is best?
Is my age going to be a major stumbling block - while I am young looking for my age, I will never see 40 again! ?
With a British passport is a work permit/cartes de sejours necessary?
What is the teaching opportunity outlook in Paris? Should I look elsewhere in France?
Is my plan for the dates a good one? I have some flexibility and could change to a more opportune time, if needed.
What is the pay range for a TEFL newbie with a lifetime of experience? I need to be able to support myself, but will have no large ongoing financial commitments at home.
Any other relevant information that you think is important that I did not know to ask.

Thank you in advance for any assistance and for tolerance of this LONG message.

[PeterBar]

The Mauzac course has been severely criticised by several participants.

If memory serves it is not recognised by any authoritative body.

A CELTA is better than a TEFL Cert, but neither is really much use in France. Have your Univ Degrees "Homologu�" and they will be the equivalent of "Bac + 5" this will then give you the possibility of working in Unis as a Lecteur.

Unless you are a Lecteur in English, or something related to English - you will need to give lectures/lessons in French.

Your age is not important, but your ability to communicate in French will be important.

[Deicide]

[fancynan]

Thanks, Deicide, for your input. In answer to your question, I am American. While certainly not fluent, I can get by with my level of French. You are right - I would be leaving a lucrative position with good pay, potential retirement, etc., but sometimes money just isn't enough. I want so much to live in France and I only need to support myself. If not now, when? If my age is against me as a 50 something woman, how much worse will it be if I wait until I retire at 62?

Anyway, cautions duly noted. If anyone out there has some information about the courses, I would appreciate it.
Nancy

[rogan]

If you have nationality from any EU country you will not need a carte de sejour to live/work in France - they were abolished Jan 1st 2005.

If you are commited to France, forget the tefl course and the CELTA. They are useless outside the Language 'school' system. Your Business background is much more useful, especially for in-company English teaching.
Base yourself in or close to a large city - Lille, Paris (personally not to my taste, but...), Lyon, Marseilles, Toulouse, Bordeaux perhaps.


Look at vacataire work in schools and colleges.

Having lived here for 15 years I have often posted on the situation in France. Use the search facility and check my posting history for France. Click my name, click "see all postings" select those that relate to France. There are links and job finding tips and my opinions.(for what they are worth).

Also take a look at www.angloinfo.com and you will see that life here is not 'un bol de cerises' See how many Brits, come, find huge problems, sell their goods in order to raise money and then go home again 2 years later, disillusioned, broke and divorced.

[Deicide]

[rogan]

Fancynan, it's a human reaction, I know, to ignore answers that you don't want to hear, but we really are being as honest as our experience allows us to be.

Some specifics:- with language schools with a TEFL cert, you'll earn between 8 and 15 Euros an hour.
Probably you will be working in several places and will need to transport yourself between those locations.
You will have accomodation and living costs to pay.
There is a big difference between gross and net salary.

Do the math, as my American colleagues say.
How long before what you spend on your course fees is recovered? ('amortiss�'' as Business people would say)
How much will you have left at the end of a month after you have paid accomodation, travel and living costs?
Do you like to eat occasionally?

Forget lang schools and forget the TEFL cert.

The only possible way of maybe making a reasonable living in France is in Higher Education, or as a vacataire in the State Education system.

Nobody is trying to burst your bubble, but you should be aware of reality.

There are other places where you can make a living.

Personally, my home is in France but I work elsewhere during the academic year.

[fancynan]

OK - Here is a rather elementary question, but one about which I am not really clear. If I go the route of higher education and require my degree/diploma, in what form must I present it? Will an unofficial copy of my transcripts, which show the conference of the degree, be acceptable? Must I have an copy of the actual diploma, which is no more than a certificate? In the US, when one requires an official transcript, it must be sent by the registrar's office. Must I do the same in this situation? Should I include an unofficial copy as well with a CV?

All the tricky details....

[Deicide]

[Deicide]

1.I was victim of a hit and run when crossing the street at a green light (for pedestrians) and the wench who hit simply drove off. Whilst writhing on the ground try to get up with minor concussions and bruised ribs people gathered around me and simply stared at me as if I was some interesting art exhibit and subsequently left me there to wither away. With all of strength I forced myself with multiple fractures to get up and I stumbled to the hospital (which was over 3km away). No one helped me and who knows why.

2. Upon exiting Nantes I wanted my 'caution' back for the flat I was living in. The landlord refused to give it back to me (well over 600 euros) citing damages that had occured that quite simply were not there. I threatened to involve the law but he would not budge, exhausted I gave up.

3. A good friend of mine rented out some storage space (basically a garage). Months later upon returning, half his property, which he had put in there was gone. He went to the man who let it out to him and he claimed ignorance. Then my friend demanded payment for the loss of property, but again a lost cause...

4. Having beer bottles thrown at me by drunken French people upon hearing me converse in English, shouting putin americain!

5. My friend was assaulted by a rabid Frenchman (he was frothing at the mouth) who claimed he hated Americans and that they should be thrown out of the country

6. Near to the Gare de Nord in Paris I was mugged by a bunch of dodgy looking French Arabs. I went to the police to report what happened and the replied that things like that happen so often that they had no time for such nonsense.

I could go on...but I like to call France 'le troup de rat de l'Europe d'oueste'...It is certainly not the place I miss the most in Europe. I hope such things are not a foreshadowing of things to come for you....

[go2guy]

Fancynan - My advice: Chase your dream, girl!

Of course teaching (especially "EFL") just about anywhere is never going to make you rich, but, believe me, you can carve out a very decent living teaching in France (provided you have a good skill set, decent personality, good work ethic, etc.). Like Rogan, I have posted my experiences on this web site regarding life and work in France, so avail yourself of that info by all means. I agree with Rogan that a "TEFL" course really isn't necessary, as long as you show up with some experience under your belt (which you plan to do in a voluntary capacity in the States, right?). Your strong cards in getting work are going to be your real world business experience and your "American English" accent. (You will may read my comments about schools' frequent demands for "American" speakers; silly nonsense of course, but an advantage nonetheless vs. the numerous Brits that are in the market.) The Language Centres at the Chambers of Commerce throughout France are always good places to start. They usually pay decently as well. Avoid the chains for sure (slave labour there). Aside from the universities, the private business schools are always looking for people and they pay well too.

I currently work, and have in the past worked, with several colleagues who are in the "second (or even third) age" as they say here. If your energy and ability eclipses your "chronological reality", you will be just fine. As for the other poster who had numerous negative experiences living in Paris, maybe a good reason to not locate in or near Paris! Like Rogan said, there are lots of other cities to choose from -- far away from the jungle of Paris (nice place to visit, wouldn't live there in a million years; if you really want to experience France, there's so much more than Paris anyway). I'm an anglophone CDN with a Brit passport living in Lyon, I've NEVER experienced any physical or verbal threats or other crap since I've been here (7 years). On the contrary, I find the majority of French to be very open to and interested in conversing with anglophones on a wide range of topics. My biggest criticism of France is the bureaucratic machine and all its minions -- this can be a very daunting experience at the best of times. Good luck!

[fancynan]

Thanks for the encouraging remarks. By all means I intend to carry out my plans! I may be a neophyte when it comes to ESL, but not to France. I have traveled all over the country and steadfastly defend the French against myopic views that the French hate Americans, are rude, etc. I have had great experiences. And, although I do love Paris, I am not wedded to the idea of living there. A brief perusal of apartment prices is enough to know how very expensive it is there. I do enjoy the smaller cities. I was in Bayonne last fall and loved that area (actually, the SW is one of my favorite areas).
Nevertheless, it is good to hear all the opinions and the experiences so to be better prepared. Thanks to all of you!

[Luder]

Rogan and the other posters are right about forgetting the TEFL "certification" and the chain schools. And while the provinces may be good, Paris has the largest number of international business schools. These schools, which pay better than language institutes, often offer degree courses in English, and they are always looking for people who can teach marketing, management, accounting, and so on in English.

Bring your diplomas and transcripts. You may need them!

[mesomorph]

Why are CELTA courses useless in France?