Job Discussion Forums

[ecocks]

Dave has opened up a Ukraine thread to reflect the growth of Ukraine's ESL industry. It had to happen, 47 million people, larger than France and a growing ESL marketplace. Thanks Dave!

So what's YOUR take (or skinny if you prefer the term) on the Ukraine ESL market? How do you see the career possibilities?

[Tiger Beer]

Nice new forum.

They should move all the other threads of the Ukraine in here as well. There were tons of them.

[FM3]

Well, as ecocks knows, I am sold on Ukraine and hope I am there soon! I've been there many times and I want to work there.

[ecocks]

is that it has a blend of European and uh, other in its atmosphere. It has an edge, but is comfortable when you need it to be. The masses are bustling (hustling) and trying to move forward but you can build relationships of friends, family, professionals and students with only a bit of effort. Prague struck me similarly but Kyiv lacks the throngs of tourists, prostitutes and backpackers. Nothing against any of those folks but it keeps that "edge" that I mentioned above.

[Sadebugo]

[ecocks]

The history of the region is interesting and you can find fortesses, palaces, churches and monasteries all over the country. Greek colonies in the Crimea, Polish palaces north of Lviv, even one of the last missile silos built before perestroika are all fascinating, at least to me. Kamynets-Podilski (pardon the spelling) is an incredible walled-fortress town which you will wonder how anyone could ever successfully attack without starving them out through seigecraft. You find old european architecture mixed in with soviet panelkt buildings and hundred year old townhomes.

Great food, napoleans, varenyky (like raviloi with different kinds of fillings), coffeehouses everywhere, sidewalk cafes, etc. Finding some places which have actually taught their employees customer service. Bargaining with taxi drivers (THERE ARE THE REAL UKRAINIAN SCAMMERS!). Shame I grew up HATING beets but I guess many people really LOVE their borscht.

But the people are best. For the most part, I avoid expats. A couple of other teachers, some professionals and NGO folks, but I have witnessed too many ugly tourist incidents and the teachers are an iffy bunch usually. My extended Ukrainian family is varied and, for the most part, pretty enjoyable. They provide plenty of contacts and a good cross-section of the society.

[canucktechie]

[mise_me_fein]

Do most people speak Russian or Ukrainian?

[ecocks]

In Western Ukraine, the tendency is to use Ukrainian. In the East, Russian. Kyiv is mostly Russian. I stick with trying to learn Russian since many more people speak it worldwide, as opposed to Ukrainian. I think if I was going to work in Lviv, I would probably have focused on Ukrainian.

[DrVanNostrand]

Is anti-semitism a problem in the Ukraine?

[ytuque]

I recently spent 5+ months in Eastern Ukraine which is the Russian part of the Ukraine. Anti-semitism is alive and well. The prevailing opinion is that Jews are intelligent but clannish and completely untrustworthy especially in financial matters. A businessman summed it up by saying Jews can either be the best or absolutely worst of people. A number of locals blame every problem on the Jews from the sad state of the economy to cabbage causing flatulence.

If you are Jewish, I think that you can expect to be insulted regularly in Eastern Ukraine, but it won't go farther than that. In general, these people are suspicous of foreigners. If you are Jewish and a foreigner, this will be compounded. If you can deal with an occasional offensive comment, you will be ok. Don't expect any western style political correctness from the locals.

The anti-semitism in the Ukraine doesn't come anything close to what I observed in the middle east or Mexico.

[ecocks]

The stereotypes live on. Although a Romanian mentioned to me that among the Rom, Scots are universally ridiculed as tight-fisted, penny-pinching sharpsters who drive a hard bargain. Here in Kyiv, I know of a few Jewish folks and they seem to get along okay. For instance, the owner of the Kyiv Post is Jewish so there appear to be the same opportunities as everyone else enjoys. There are a couple of synagogues in town and the skinheads mostly seem to target based on superficalialities like skin colors and clothing styles. I have seen a couple of guys walking through the metros wearing yarmulkas (hope I spelled that right) and no one was chasing them with sticks or knives. Certainly this is the area of the world where the word ghetto was born though and you should be prepared to deal with feelings you run into.

[MO39]

[ytuque]

My grandfather was from a small town near Hermosillo Sonora. I have spent some time in Mexico, and a lot of time with Mexican Americans since I grew up in San Diego. So I am very surprised to hear that they aren't insulting Jews south of the border these days. However, I am sure that you rarely hear gringo without pinche before it!

Who are you hanging out with in Mexico, upper class and educated or working class people? If the former, they are not typical Mexicans.

[MO39]