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Tömer Turkish Language Course. Student complaints....
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yaramaz



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2345
Location: Not where I was before

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I quite liked the UK and voluntarily stayed three years, mostly in London/Bristol/Sussex. I was just going overboard in my criticisms to illustrate how I thought ghost was going overboard about Turkey. I was trying to say that there are difficulties adjusting to any new environment or culture, no matter how close it is to your own.

Never meant to offend!
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12380
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:21 pm    Post subject: Lovely weather, isn't it ? Reply with quote

Consider how people in Britain talk about the weather. This is not because they are particularly inetertested in it, but rather a formulaic way of taking to people. Talking to other people is not only about exchanging information. It has a social function too.

In Turkey it is football.
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1335
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:52 pm    Post subject: Turkish lack of imagination Reply with quote

The issue is the lack of curiosity most Turks have for things that do not fall into the banal and easy department. Today, for example, at Tömer, the librarian (supposedly a man of letters and knowledge) had to ask a fellow employee what language was spoken in Cuba! He had absolutely no idea....sad.

A second thing is that the vast majority of Turks don't read. One should not count the reading they consume in the (mostly) trash newspapers that are churned out on a daily basis (around 20 dailies or so, with only 3 or so which could be considered serious and informative). Reading (books, journals, decent newspapers etc...) is one way to stay informed and abreast of what is going on in the world. Most Turks, unfortunately, have an attraction for news of the scandalous variety with plenty of gory details. Just open those colorful trash newspapers they produce, or watch the news here.

Turks are extraordinarily predictable in their behaviour and choices when it comes to cultural activities. For example, the recent movie 'Matrix' which is showing on screens in Turkey is being shown to sellout crowds because this is the sort of nonsense they like...and that goes for all sectors of the population including the professionals. Watch also, the pathetic nonsense that is shown on prime time t.v. in Turkey and you will quickly fall into a depressive state.

Now, with regard to the above, one will concur that it is difficult to have conversations with people who have such a limited view of the world (most of the 'knowledge' coming from t.v. news and trash newspapers).

Even educated Turks (or ones who profess to be so) show an alarming lack of insight into what is going on in the world and around them. The only things most Turks know about foreign countries are the footballers who hail from those lands. Poster sometimes play a game with Turks, pretending to be Argentine, Brazilian, French, Algerian etc.....the Turks have no trouble naming footballers from those nations, but know next to nothing about other aspects (more important surely) about those other countries.

As mentioned before, conversations with University professors in Turkey confirm the above, with the latter admitting and concurring that the vast majority of Turkish students have little interest in what is going on in the world around them. They (the students) subscribe to a very parochial way of thinking, and that is obviously not to their benefit.

A recent article in the 'journal of Higher Education' about the training and aspirations of prospective Turkish teachers showed that the latter were unable (in their vast majority) to write a research paper using appropriate references etc...

For a Turkish student teacher, a research paper is merely a plagiarized document in which information culled from a number of sources (always foreign sources because there are no Turkish books on the subject!) is copied and afixed to a paper. A complete lack of imagination and curiosity results in dull papers.

Just look at the education system in this country and the methods used. Most of the learning is rote in nature, with a lot of copying from the board and memorization...no wonder most Turks hate reading!
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Albulbul



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 364

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:33 pm    Post subject: ghostly desires Reply with quote

Sounds to me as if Turkey is like most other countries that I know. Tell me, ghost, where is it NOT the way you describe here ?

Britain ?
France ?
The US ?
Canada ?
Germany ?
Shangri-la ?

I have the feeling that you are one of those unfortunates who will be miserable wherever you go. And what is worse you will insist on trying to spread your misery.
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FGT



Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 761
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What would the average Canadian/American/Brit etc know about Turkey?
Probably the names of two football teams (if English). Other than that the "knowledge" is likely to be misconceptions such as: Turks are Arabs, they wear fezes, Istanbul is the capital (viz The Weakest Link on BBC last week), etc etc.
So come off your high horse, Ghost. It's not only Turks who are ignorant of the rest of the world.

I think you are exceptional in your perception and understanding, particularly as you are only a Tomer level 2 student, I find it remarkable that you meet and learn such detailed and privileged information from people of all walks of life - the professor who tells you of his students' shortcomings, the government official who spills the beans about the habitual laziness in the civil service - remarkable.

I applaud you on your perspicacity but I worry about your sanity. Why would you choose to stay in a country which seems to be abhorrent to you? Are you exhibiting signs of a masochistic tendency or are you actually enjoying every minute of it and just writing here to attract attention to yourself? I wish I knew more about psychology and then I could suggest the appropriate therapy. I don't, so I'll use some common sense (for you). If you are unhappy, go home. If not, shut up.
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Anitata



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 42
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Ghost
I cannot bear to read your posts anymore. Its my second months here in Istanbul. Sometimes I also find it difficult to adjust the way the turks handleing the school. Well, I just keep telling myself that this is Turkey and they do the things in their own ways. Turkey do not ask us to come and its us who choose to come and experience the culture. We must remember this point. If we are not happy, we must pack our bags and leave.
And how do you know Turks do not read? I have many turkish friends back in Australia and few in Istanbul. They read a lot , they have a lot of books at home, perhaps they are not reading on the ferries or buses....but how can you talk about other nation like this??
Don't forget why you come to Turkey at the first place. I know you dont come here for Money, because you can get a lot more money teaching in Asia than here. So stop complaining about the salary, people and everything. Think positive. Try to write down 10 reasons why you come here to teach and write down 10 things that makes you laugh every evening. I hope you will feel better.
Hope I can read a post of yours telling us some positive things around you soon.
Good luck and cheers,
Anita
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1335
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:10 pm    Post subject: Sane Reply with quote

Just because things are tough does not mean one should take the easy route and just pack and leave.

To come to Turkey, many posters disposed of assets they had at home and made considerable sacrifices to come here. This is the case here.

Why should one shut up just for the convenience of those who work somewhere without looking at the whole picture?

The information (both positive and negative) should help prospective ESL people in deciding whether Turkey is really the place for them. In this particular case the 'fat lady' sang (El Gordo) before a post was taken, but the poster in question had decided to take the 'risk' despite the warnings. Such is life.

The negative experiences here will turn into an overall positive, because no longer will this poster waste time and energy giving consideration to this country (in terms of work and living) once the contract finished. Remember we all learn much more from negative rather than positive experiences.

There is nothing remarkable about the snippets of information offered. Just open your eyes and ears and you will see and hear things that shock you in Turkey every day.

Example: Many Turkish teachers do not take their jobs seriously. Today at Tömer the Turkish teacher spent around 15 minutes searching for the place on the tape which corresponded with the page in the text! That's right folks....the preparation that the teacher should have done prior to the lesson was done during class time, with the students just waiting, because the teacher told them to be ready to follow the reading transcript!

In the end, once the correct place on the tape was found, the teacher switched topics and told us what we should do for homework! Total disorganization and unprofessionalism.

This same teacher had severely reprimanded an American student in the class for his writing style following a 'dikte' that had been read by said teacher. This 'dikte' had been given at an unbelievably fast tempo to the consternation of the students.

A famous quote: 'Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far they can go.' (T.S. Eliot).
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Anitata



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 42
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, there are good fish and bad fish in the sea. There are some bad teachers in every school. Not all qualified teachers are good teachers and not all backpackers are bad teachers.
It surprised me how well you know Turkey and the Turks with limited Turkish language skills. I am sure if you give the entire world a chance to tell you their view about English world in their native languages, they will have a lot to say to make your world better as well.
It seems you have answers for all your problems. Wish you all the best and good luck!!
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yaramaz



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2345
Location: Not where I was before

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghost, again with the 'big picture'... Kindly stop declaring that you are the only yabanci in all of Turkey who looks at this mythical, concrete BIG PICTURE. I still don't know what you are talking about asyour explanations are feeble and not based on any reality that I recognise. Your sense of self importance is embarrassing. Your lack of awareness about others around you, especially those who disagree with you, is also embarrassing. I also speak with professors and government officials and librarians and countless other Turks every day of my life and not one has insisted on telling me how awful and lazy their own people are. Maybe you have met your Turkish kindred spirits-- grumps of the world unite!
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1335
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:50 am    Post subject: Head in the clouds Reply with quote

How can one say that explanations are feeble when they are based on concrete facts and happenings that this poster has witnessed and lived through day after day in this country.

It is sad to see people come here and live in a kind of vacum in which everything is 'cool' and fine....just 'chill' and smell the roses philosophy.

Well no...what one is smelling now is a bunch of smoke from people in internet cafes so inconsiderate and selfish for the welfare of others. Forgot to mention, also, the horrendous noise levels coming from those brain dead individuals playing those 'savaç oyun' games on the computers and disturbing others trying to write. Absolutely no point in asking those Turks to keep quiet. They will just laugh and continue.

That is just one detail in a whole host of things which makes one think that one is dealing with rather savage and uncultured people as a whole.

Last night at the Pansiyon the employees decided to erect scaffolding in order to put a plastic top to stop the rain from reaching the restaurant area. The work started around 11.30pm and finished at 2am. A rather unreasonable time to be doing noisy work....

These lazy good for nothings lounge about all day, and then decide to work when the mood strikes them, paying scant regard for the guests who pay money to get a decent night's sleep in the Pansiyon. Where else would this type of scandalous behaviour and lack of regard for others occur?

Have you ever noticed that in Turkey there is security (police and the infamous 'güvenlik') everywhere, even in places where one would assume that little or no security is needed. This is because Turks themselves realize that without security the country as a whole would fall into a state of anarchy, such is the lack of control from many citizens.

In short, this ever present security is an indication that Turks, in their vast majority, have an inability to police themselves and behave in reasonable ways. Sad, and it does not bode well for the future of a country set on joining the Euro. Union.
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1335
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:51 am    Post subject: Head in the clouds Reply with quote

How can one say that explanations are feeble when they are based on concrete facts and happenings that this poster has witnessed and lived through day after day in this country.

It is sad to see people come here and live in a kind of vacum in which everything is 'cool' and fine....just 'chill' and smell the roses philosophy.

Well no...what one is smelling now is a bunch of smoke from people in internet cafes so inconsiderate and selfish for the welfare of others. Forgot to mention, also, the horrendous noise levels coming from those brain dead individuals playing those 'savaç oyun' games on the computers and disturbing others trying to write. Absolutely no point in asking those Turks to keep quiet. They will just laugh and continue.

That is just one detail in a whole host of things which makes one think that one is dealing with rather savage and uncultured people as a whole.

Last night at the Pansiyon the employees decided to erect scaffolding in order to put a plastic top to stop the rain from reaching the restaurant area. The work started around 11.30pm and finished at 2am. A rather unreasonable time to be doing noisy work....

These lazy good for nothings lounge about all day, and then decide to work when the mood strikes them, paying scant regard for the guests who pay money to get a decent night's sleep in the Pansiyon. Where else would this type of scandalous behaviour and lack of regard for others occur?

Have you ever noticed that in Turkey there is security (police and the infamous 'güvenlik') everywhere, even in places where one would assume that little or no security is needed. This is because Turks themselves realize that without security the country as a whole would fall into a state of anarchy, such is the lack of control from many citizens.

In short, this ever present security is an indication that Turks, in their vast majority, have an inability to police themselves and behave in reasonable ways. Sad, and it does not bode well for the future of a country set on joining the Euro. Union.
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richard ame



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 319
Location: Republic of Turkey

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:53 pm    Post subject: Just go Ghost !!!! Reply with quote

Hi
Well it seems that you have discovered in record time what most of us took a long time to find out, basically that this country is not perfect. If you find somewhere else better in the country or you have had a better offer then I suggest you do what any normal people do and give notice .Yes strange as it may seem under Turkish labour law you are allowed to leave a job before the end of your contract term providing you give at least 4 weeks notice so do it now and you can be home for Christmas . Goodbye ghost you sad muppet .
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dmb



Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome back richard. it's been a while since we heard your words of wisdom.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12380
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:14 pm    Post subject: richard Reply with quote

richard

Do something to get "ghost" deported.

Or failing that, do something to stop his whinging here.

I have met lots of other miserable TEFLers who should clearly be selling ice cream or sweeping up in the Municipal Park, but "ghost" is a real whinger !
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3135

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Turkish lack of imagination Reply with quote

ghost wrote:
For example, the recent movie 'Matrix' which is showing on screens in Turkey is being shown to sellout crowds because this is the sort of nonsense they like...


Open your eyes. This movie is being show to sellout crowds in many countries throughout the world.

I find your crass generalizations in your posts to be those of a philistine.

Get a grip, pal.
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