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[once again]

I have worked at some of the best (by reputation) and some of the worst (by "banding") schools in HK. I have found appallling behaviour in some of "the best" and great behaviour in some of the "worst". Then again it has been vice versa. My feeling is that behaviour issues are a school ethos issue, by which I mean that a school that promulgates an ethos of respect to others as a major part of its agenda, both top down and bottom up, has the better behaved pupils. Schools that live in fear of adverse parental comments seem to have the worst discipline. Anybody have any comments on discipline issues within HK schools?

[ChrisRose]

The discipline is an interesting point.

I have worked in several local schools, where discipline is used as a tool to poison students interest in English. By that I mean the students were p[punished by standing in the corridor and forced to copy from there English books!

However I think we should consider the cultural aspects more.

What is the place of discipline within the context of the different cultures of teaching and learning; local Chinese vs. International schools in respect to physiological & physiological development of the student.

Example: Many international students may appear to be the most obnoxious, noisy undisciplined students in Hong Kong as the pour out of their campuses after class. However when we consider their development as whole persons and the ability to take ownership of education, that is to apply their learnt skills in a realistic way, I would suggest that the international students are the most successful.

In the end it is a balance of cultural factors. The teaching and learning styles of the schools, parents desires for learning environments (traditional Vs. int. sch.).

[foster]

So, far I have noticed that my student respond to raised voice, more than anything..and of course the threat of the discipline master and parents. I caught a boysurfing porn and he was ready to cry when I said "WHAT WOULD YOUR PARENTS DO?"

Rasiing my voice never worked in Canada....NEVER! It just made me look stupid.

I am in a band 2 school..CMI..which is bad because today, I had troubles with some 1D kids and when I tried to talk to the one kid, he just spewed on at me in Chinese...even when I asked him very basic questions.

Yeah, I have been told by my mentor that if they are bad or failing or not doing homework, make them stay after school and copy out a dictionary or some English notes...ARE YOU KIDDIN?!?!??? ME, stay after school?? Who is that punishing???

My friend is in a Band 1 school and she has some of the same troubles...but not as severe. Threaten them with marks and they seem to get the point.

[once again]

My appologies Chris, but I am not sure I really understand your post. If there is no discipline in the classroom then how can any classroom learning take place? I worked in one primary school (one of the best by "reputation") every day for two months, and found the English levels to be high, but it was almost impossible to have any form of decent lesson. I would honestly think that in the vast majority of cases, no form of new learning took place quite simply because the students were so disruptive and inattentive. It was later stated in the SCMP that the parents of said school were complaining about harsh discipline at the school and that the school itself made little difference to the education of their children, it was the private tutors they paid for that were educating their kids. If the parents had ever seen the behaviour of their kids in the school, where disciplinary action seemed never to be taken, they would not have been so arrogant. Maybe the need for the private tutors came because the kids were animals in class, not a word I choose lightly, and the school was so afraid of its reputation and parents that they did nothing about it. And so I assume, the charade continues.

[Roger]

Quite my idea - punish the parents by having them watch their own kid misbehave - without being able to stop him (her)!
I suggested this on the China forum.
The discipline issue boils down to:
children let steam off under expat teachers because that's when they feel so free.
They feel so "free" because we have less power, or are less strict.
And, even if we are strict we won't get the backing we need to enforce the rules of the game.
The problem with Chinese parents is that they sort of "buy" education quantitatively, i.e. enrolling their kids for extra classes (which they do with the best of intentions, but without taking any heed of what their kid wants or is interested in or needs).
Thus, kids get over-enrolled (a typical phenomenon in East Asia), and consequently, they develop some problem or other. Why is the suicide rate so high in HK and in the rest of China? Parents don't know their kids well enough! They stress them out. ANd in class, these kids misbehave.
It's not as big an issue as with unruly Northern American kids, to be sure. For the moment, no one comes to class with a handgun. Bullying? I haven't seen much evidence of it myself - neither in HK nor in Guangdong.
But there certainly is a trend to antisocial behaviour. Sulking kids that put on a brave face as they say "see you later, mom!", then become obnoxious in class.

[foster]

I think, for me, that the problem is that I am in a CMI school and the kids know I dont understand them. When they get into trouble with me, they start speaking Cantonese and I stare blankly. Then I haul them to the discipline master and he deals with them...I dont know if their punishment is harsh enough, but I can guess that what he does is nicer than what I would do.

[once again]

Interesting replies, thanks guys. I am enjoying the image of parents stuck behind a two way mirror watching their kids run amok and lowering in their seats by the second. As for not speaking the language, I would be a very rich guy if I had one dolllar for every time I chastised a kid and the kid had immeadiatly not been able to understand a word of English. They always look at me with innocent eyes and start asking their friends what I am talking about!

[foster]

Had a *lovely* class today with 3D where I accomplished NOTHING...I asked a few students to give me 3 sentences in the past tense, which some managed to do. Some asked me questions in the past tense, which I accept since it on the right track. While I was asking questions, I was virtually unable to hear answers because the other students were LOUD and OBNOXIOUS! This is my typical day 3, period 6 with 3D.
In our school, as I think is the norm of HK schools, the A classes are good, B, ok, C, little worse, and D, all the S***heads thrown together. In this case, it is a crap class and they know it. They even asked their form teacher if the other teacher liked them....they KNOW they are being bad kids.
I get to the point where the sound of Cantonese makes my skin crawl. I hate the fact that the students *think* they get off light with me. However, after making some boys clean out desks after school yeasterday and kicking one out of class this AM, I doubt my reputation will be for being a pushover.
In the 3D room, I feel like I have lost it. I try to teach the lesson, I talk, I know that a few listen and sometimes, I even get a good day. It is 35 minutes of my life I will never get back but I try to make it the least painful 35 minutes.

Today, on top of the term one exams I have and the compostions I have to mark and the Listening Test I have to supervise [color=red]AFTER[/color] school, I just wanna cry.