Job Discussion Forums

Lonesome Dove · Joined: 01 Nov 2008 Posts: 24

Hannibal is just wrong to suggest that nobody leaves CNAQ voluntarily, at least unless they have a permanent job in Canada they need to return to. I have never seen figures, but I know personally of a fair number who have left, including several "runners." The attrition seems greater than at other places I have taught.

This in itself is surprising, because, as Hannibal says, the pay is superb, better than anyone is going to get in another job anywhere in ESL, either in the Gulf, Canada, or anywhere else. The hours are not the best, but competitive. The students are not the best, but no worse than elsewhere in the Gulf at the technical college level. And I would insist, against some here, that Doha is not at all a bad place to live--safe, quite a bit going on, all the familiar comforts of home.

So why are they nevertheless having these turnover problems--something any business wants to avoid?

I think it has to indicate how bad the management situation and general working atmosphere is.

Of course, not everyone at CNAQ is unhappy. The whole point of cronyism, for example, is that it is of great benefit to the cronies. So there have to be a certain number of folks at CNAQ who feel quite lucky to be there. Moreover, CNAQ seems to have lower standards for experience and academic qualifications than any other tertiary institution in the Gulf--people who would not be qualified to teach anywhere else can, at CNAQ, aspire to any position at all, even upper management. This, too, is bound to make a good number of people happy--they've found their gravy train.

Unfortunately, those who are less happy are going to be the most qualified and committed teachers. Those who aren't interested only in money, those with a sense of professionalism, those who actually tend to earn their pay, those who might hope to get almost as good pay elsewhere, and those who expect merit to be rewarded.

If they are the ones leaving, this bodes ill for the institution.

MyTrunkshow · Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:30 am Post subject: CNA

I read Lonesome Dove's post, then went back to Hannibal's, then I read the thread again.

CNA-Q is not a business in the context you have provided Dove. It strives to be a Canadian run school in Arab culture. It is not a business like a buxiban or cram school or private school in western or no-western culture.

This school is a fairly new foray for everyone involved, although a few years have gone by and some issues seem to remain unresolved. Enrolment is on the upswing and each new semester presents challenges. CNA-Q is likely full of highly talented people, some better than others. However, the school you've described is a generalization that does not help anyone's further understanding of CNA-Q.

You describe being committed and professionalism in opposite terms of what Canadians learn. The fundamentals of being committed and professionalism are dealing with situations, improving one's own situation, being flexible and adapting. Amplify these skills in a foreign culture and it takes mettle and a strong mindset to realize reward from a job.

As you dismissively infer about people: "The less happy will be the most qualified and committed." The most qualified will have significant global ESL experience, skills that can only be obtained from living abroad for several years or more; patience, perseverance and gumption to follow through in dealing with all things new in a foreign country. This is professionalism in the ESL world, not just an MA, a BA and/or a TESOL course. Credentials mean little in a person's ability to teach in an Arab classroom. For instance, I've never seen anything taught in a pedagogical methodology course about students being lazy, mean, sleeping, texting, flirting or whatever else. It takes (inter)personality skills to make a teacher. Just because someone is qualified and committed does not mean they can teach in the ESL domain. That's for sure. Theory is out the window when the students forget their books or don't show up.

I agree with you that the cronyism needs to go...but somehow it is possible to be mitigated with a personal firewall, as others have done. On this point, it is a darn shame the problem hasn't been cured after more than 5 years. The CBC, numerous posts from reliable sources and people I've talked to from CNA-Q at a conference have all more or less confirmed this to varying degrees. But, others like frznguru(a female teacher who used to post in 2006?)linebacker and others enjoy their time there. As we well know, cronyism is a problem back on the Rock too.

As for Hannibal, he reminds me of sysiphus's fate. Sisyphus was sentenced to pushing a rock up a hill. As Greek legend has it, he let the rock roll down and skipped and jumped playfully as he ran back down to start again. He found great joy in misery. Translated to modern times, Hannibal gets things done when others around him are in disbelief and horror that he gets along well in this world. Good on Hannibal. He is a conqueror. The rest of the Sisyphus myth is diabolical, so we won't go there.

Don't go back to Canada dove, if that crossed your mind. Stick it out in a challenging environment. Or, maybe you're just venting at some concerns and dissatisfaction that are difficult to deal with as this is your first gig abroad? If this isn't your first gig abroad, then this response is meaningless to you.

CNAQ can't be a Canadian school on foreign soil. Not yet. Maybe never. It doesn't have anything close to what the American Univ. Cairo, has achieved,for example. CNA took what it could... a $300,000,000-10 year contract for a small school from NFLD. With this comes baggage, intercultural (mis)management, conflict and unfairness.

Are you, Lukey, Baedebok, Ntropy thinking that CNA Q is not affected by local management styles? Look at public policy here and see how things are done. Why would CNAQ be different? It isn't CNAQ's money. It's Qatar's and they effect what goes on. Their policies may even promote cronyism. Sad

Be happy. I'm happy in Saudi and others before me hated it with a passion. They still post regularly about how bad it was...but it really isn't. Many are content and enjoy it here. Others aren't. These posts on ESL Cafe often are linked to an individual's perspective. Sh$$ happens. Do you react to the sh$$ or do you simply go ''mwuhaha'' clean it up and go on to the next thing without thinking about poor ole me... a victim again. Those evil cronies.

mts.

Imdramayu · Joined: 09 Feb 2007 Posts: 394 Location: South Korea

Well, guys, I'm glad this thread isn't dieing or getting buried. From the looks for things at CNAQ these days, the school will implode. There is rapant cronyism and corruption at CNAQ. On the other hand, it has been in that state for years and it seems to stagger along. I do hope it survives and grows into a great school of higher learning (like the American Univ in Cairo and the Education City universities). CNAQ could really help the Qataris with their education needs.

I agree with My Trunkshow's thoughts that CNAQ will never be able to mature to becoming a great school of higher learning (like American Univ in Cairo) - even though I wish it would. Qatari business culture does influence and work against (in some cases) the CNAQ's own busines culture. But CNAQ could rise up against this. How have Education City universities successfully been able to grow and mature while CNAQ hasn't? Is it because the original CNAQ mandate was poorly thought out and the people currently at the helm are incompetent? Shouldn't that mean that those at the helm leave? Is that happening as we speak?

Lonesome Dove · Joined: 01 Nov 2008 Posts: 24

Trunkshow, it is not profitable, and not fair play, to speculate on why someone writes what they do. That's ad hominem, and worse--we are trying to preserve our anonymity here, and often cannot reveal much about our circumstances. You need to deal with what people actually say.

As it happens, you are dead wrong to assume I am in my first posting overseas.

This being so, your post, as you yourself say, ends up being of no value to me; and misleading to others.

Sorry to say this. I hope you do not take it personally, but I don't want others to be left with the wrong impression.

MyTrunkshow · Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:23 pm Post subject:

Huh? How is your anonymity being affected? Has there been such a turnaround at CNAQ that you're the only person that has more than one year there..then we could all guess it's you? Wink

The main point we can see eye to eye on is cronyism. Other than that, we have opposing views on how to approach a job in a school that is strongly influenced by local management and old hands.

Anyway, you have just grossly trashed your co-workers you pass by in the hall each day.

ntropy · Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 671 Location: ghurba

MyTrunkshow · Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:22 am Post subject:

ntropy said

ntropy · Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 671 Location: ghurba

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ntropy · Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 671 Location: ghurba

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ntropy · Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 671 Location: ghurba

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Hannibal_the_Conquerer · Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 21 Location: Doha, Qatar

Karamazov · Joined: 15 Nov 2008 Posts: 2

Things that are awesome about CNA-Q include:

Huge $, small classes, few contact hours, lots of prep time, 3 months off/year, no bills to pay, tons of money for PD, technology all over campus, a free ride to and from work every day...

I think people that complain about CNA-Q would be complaining anywhere... they should spend a year in the hagwons of South Korea and then see how they feel.