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If your school is cheating you then go here
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 916
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:45 pm    Post subject: If your school is cheating you then go here Reply with quote

Panstwowa Inspekcja Pracy is a government office. Find out where it is and go there with a Polish friend who can help you.

Just the threat of going to see these people will be enough. If your school is up to no good, they won't want a 'control'. You'll get paid.
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billbob



Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does this government inspectorate look out for all people who work in all places under any circumstances, or is it just for those on a full employment contract (i.e. 0 people teaching English in private schools)?
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 916
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:10 am    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

Looks out for everyone. Language schools are terrified of them because generally, they treat native speakers like shit.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 582

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

billbob wrote:
Does this government inspectorate look out for all people who work in all places under any circumstances, or is it just for those on a full employment contract (i.e. 0 people teaching English in private schools)?
Everyone working in a real school (public or private) will have full employment rights (ie, umowa o prace). Anyway, dragonpiwo is right - PIP can raise hell if they want. Many language schools will not comply with the law on lighting, for instance (there are minimum levels of light required in the workplace), and that's just the start. It's PIP who more or less declared umowa o dzieło to be unlawful in relation to language schools, too. To be honest, I'd like to see them go after 'self employed' people working full time in language schools.
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Janek



Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Krakow, Poland

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: erm Reply with quote

xxx

Last edited by Janek on Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Janek



Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Krakow, Poland

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xxx

Last edited by Janek on Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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simon_porter00



Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 471
Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just out of interest, what's this concept of 'fake self-employed'?

If someone is self-employed, i.e. is a registered entrepreneur and is paying taxes/zus etc and offers their services to a school on a freelance basis and the school agrees to work with someone on that basis, what's the problem?

Aside from the negotiated terms which should run alongside such agreement - pay, holiday leave, non-compete, reporting etc which could be negotiated in a really bad way, i don't see why this should be stopped.

Or am i missing something?
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 916
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:12 am    Post subject: Simon Reply with quote

I think that's one for Delph Simon.

I think they have to offer you a proper contract if you are actually working full-time for them like a normal employed person.

All I know is this. I threatened the school for which I've been working part-time for a couple of months (also CCd it to the Warsaw office) and hey presto, I got paid after 3 days. The school said I was being 'unfair'. I pointed out that I'd worked for 73 days and not been paid 1 cent. There's other shit too in these agreements like you have to give 28 days notice but they can get rid of you in a heartbeat. These schools want it both ways. It really is dreadful.

I'm all for proper contracts Delph, so I tip my hat if that's what you offer.

I've actually learned (re-affirmed) a lot by working here for 2 months. You need to be mobile, have an office and work long hours. If I hadn't had a car, it would have been awful getting to the clients. The other thing I've learned from the students themselves is that the market is flooded with poor teachers. The only way is to go it alone like Janek. The language schools are worse than they have ever been.

I'll do it to keep me busy at some point in the distant future. Meanwhile, I'm off to the UAE with the missus. Contract signed. What I earned gross for working 40 hours here, I'll make in 1 day there. Not bragging-it's just a fact and I want to pay off the mortgage in under 2 years.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 582

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

simon_porter00 wrote:
Just out of interest, what's this concept of 'fake self-employed'?
Basically - and it is against the law - fake self-employment is when you're working full time in a job, your work is fully directed (ie, you have classes when you're told to have classes) and that the work is regular and long term.. It's a huge problem in Poland - now that the umowa o dzieło route has been closed down (Janek - if you know anyone working under that, advise them to put 20% aside for ZUS if they get caught...) - the only way left for language schools to employ people is through this self employment route.
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simon_porter00



Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 471
Location: Warsaw, Poland

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure i get it still.
A school (a legal entity) enters into a contract with a teacher (another legal entity)

The contract has provisions which details the working relationship.

If a teacher only works for this one school, this is then seen as fake self-employment?

This kind of relationship exists across many markets/industries. I can't see how they can go just after language schools arbitrarily as one industry out of many that practices this (well, yes i can, this is Poland after all).

If, for example, the contract doesn't allow for accepted employment regulations e.g.holiday leave i.e. the school simply abuses the freelancer then yes, but even then if this is agreed between the parties i still think it'll be messy litigation.

If this is chased up, which is no skin off my nose, it'll end up shutting most language schools down or really mean teachers are paid peanuts.
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delphian-domine



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 582

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my understanding of it - might be wrong, but this should be pretty accurate. In order to work as a genuinely freelance teacher, you need to show that you're operating a genuine business. A genuine business would be unlikely to be solely working with one company - and is usually a tell-tale sign that the company wants to avoid paying ZUS/other employment liabilities. It's not legal to avoid ZUS payments (hence why umowa o dzieło has been more or less eliminated as an option for teachers) - but obviously schools don't want to pay 20% ZUS contributions on top of the gross salary. This leaves forcing teachers into self employment so that schools/companies can avoid paying ZUS - but there's no way you can be self employed if your work is fully directed and that you have no option of refusing work (which a genuine business owner could). Nothing is being chased up now, but it may come. But - of course - the genuinely freelance teacher is unaffected by this.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 916
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:25 pm    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

Empik has another thing called Twoj Start Up and involves a CRM system (whatever that is). They charge you for it.
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Master Shake



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1006
Location: Itabashi, Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delphian-domine wrote:
This is my understanding of it - might be wrong, but this should be pretty accurate. In order to work as a genuinely freelance teacher, you need to show that you're operating a genuine business. A genuine business would be unlikely to be solely working with one company - and is usually a tell-tale sign that the company wants to avoid paying ZUS/other employment liabilities. It's not legal to avoid ZUS payments (hence why umowa o dzieło has been more or less eliminated as an option for teachers) - but obviously schools don't want to pay 20% ZUS contributions on top of the gross salary. This leaves forcing teachers into self employment so that schools/companies can avoid paying ZUS - but there's no way you can be self employed if your work is fully directed and that you have no option of refusing work (which a genuine business owner could). Nothing is being chased up now, but it may come. But - of course - the genuinely freelance teacher is unaffected by this.
In theory, every freelance teacher has the option of refusing work. I mean, you can't legally make a contract with a freelance teacher stating that they will teach X number of hours per week/month, correct?

However, in practice it is very easy for schools to informally coerce teachers into taking on or giving up teaching hours, and especially so if the school is your main source of income:

"Don't want to teach prenatal YL classes all day Sunday, huh? Well, it looks like we may not be able to offer you that piece-of-cake adult FCE class MWF we had mentioned after all..."
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 916
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:34 am    Post subject: so... Reply with quote

I think the 'safest' kind of work here is with a uni.

Empik even asked me to fill in a 'substitution form' after I'd quit. Clearly up to no good.
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 916
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:37 pm    Post subject: the sad truth is.... Reply with quote

The sad truth is that most EFL teachers here in Poland are on or near the bread line, so just want the work and don't care about their type of contract. Schools know this. They also know that many native speakers don't think about such things and newbies especially are prone to trust their employers. Schools take full advantage of this.

Who would want to be starting out in Poland these days?

The boat here sailed long ago.
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