Job Discussion Forums

isa · Joined: 31 Oct 2003 Posts: 6

this thread, i'm afraid, has provided me with far more information than desired. i'm trying my best not to be disheartened by the numerous negative posts.

i hail from one of the countries in ghost's "best places to teach" list, and i find it terrible here. it makes me wonder how much worse it's going to be, teaching in a country ghost loathes! Shocked

SweetOne · Joined: 19 Jul 2003 Posts: 109

Isa, I wouldn't give it another thought. I believe that each person brings to the table their own personality and viewpoints and, consequently, gets a bit of the same returned to them from said table. In other words, if one person doesn't like a particular country, culture, etc, maybe it's because their experiences - up to that point - did not prepare them for such. My experience is more like Yaramaz. I love it here and wouldn't trade this for all the tea in China. My friendships are genuine. Plain and simple. I am honest with them, and likewise I get the same honesty returned. I am far from naive and realize that there are those that would screw me as soon as look at me. That's fine. Those people are all over the world, not just in Turkey.

So, complete your preparations and come to one of the most beautiful cultures in the world. My friends would love to meet you. Smile

ghost · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia

What culture? Sitting around coffee shops, drinking foul tasting tea out of little cups (they never heard of a nice 'cuppa' with milk here) and smoking cigarettes like there was no tomorrow (and polluting other people in the process)?

Sorry folks - who intend to come here, but be prepared for one big yawn. And this is not just this poster's experience. A new teacher in this school, recently arrived from Dubai, is already talking about splitting come the new year.

The people who opt to stay here are ones who are satisfied with this mind numbing boring experience, but if you want stimulation, interesting conversation and a variety of recreational and cultural activities come to Turkey at your own risk, because you will have trouble filling your spare time with meaningful activities.

OK - how does the average 'teacher' spend their spare time in this culturally fascinating country?....watching hours of videos and DVD's, cable t.v. (thank you Digiturk for whatever you are worth...) and hours on the Internet. Others show a liking for the old bottle....

But to come to Turkey and waste your time with the above is a waste, as you can do all those things at home. Not criticism, but merely an observation of how most teachers spend their spare time...and it is hardly fascinating is it? More like escapism, because if the country (Turkey) was interesting enough, one would not spend all this spare time doing the previously mentioned activities....there would be other ways to spend our time.

At times one has the impression that teachers here are just 'filling time' before they go to their next assignment overseas.

Life is short and to come to Turkey just for an 'easy pay check' is not worth it.

yaramaz · Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:41 am Post subject:

I like Turkish tea. I find it to be very flavourful and refreshing. My friend Mustafa the cap-maker in the vezirhan makes excellent tea on his tiny little gas stove. He doesn't smoke. Many of my friends don't smoke either. Nobody in my department smokes either.

Maybe my experience is different because I am a woman. Maybe I have different expectations. I don't have Digiturk, nor do I have a DVD player. I rarey watch TV, except BBC news. I rarely drink (I drank more in the UK where there's a strong drinking and smoking culture). I do a lot of art-- I'm painting and drawing a lot because my job leaves me with a lot of free time. I have picked up my camera and started doing a lot of photography this year, esp in Cappadocia. So many things to capture. I also write a lot. I am reading some intense, excellent books, some borrowed from Turk friends. I travel on weekends and during holidays because I can easily afford it. I explore the neighbourhoods in my city, checking out cafes and restaurants and old alleys and ancient mausoleums. My time in turkey has made me appreciate my degree in history. I walk, run, dance, and do yoga to stay in shape. I am learning to cook Turkish food. I have met a lot of amazing, brave, interesting, educated people here, both foreign and Turkish. This is my Turkey and no matter what ghost says, it still holds true for me. My time is not wasted. How better should I be spending my time?

ghost · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia

Yaramaz - you are an exception to the rule (in more ways than one..). Talk and observe most ESL teachers here and they will tell you that they are bored and listless.....there really is very little to do here.

Furthermore, the language barrier is something that does not help most of us...since the vast majority of us never learn Turkish beyond a rudimentary, elementary level. And yes, maybe we should start 'billing' some of those Turkish 'friends' who latch on to one for free English conversation lessons. They never even have the courtesy of trying to speak in Turkish do they...in their vast majority? If you are conned into thinking that they are really 'friends' take into account the experience of your fellow South African colleague who was so poorly treated by his Turkish 'friends' when he returned from Springbok land last September.

His experience was far from unique.

Case in point - a recently arrived ESL teacher at our school (previously in Dubai) was assaulted and beaten following a drinking session with some Turks near the train station, in this city of 500,000 (equidistant between Bursa and Ankara). The unfortunate foreign teacher had perhaps been naive in his aim to win new Turkish friends by offering 'rounds to everyone' in a Turkish watering hole. These 'friends' took advantage of the recently arrived neophyte, following him home and threatening him. The next day he was beaten up in the street and has the bruises and cuts as a memory. The 'friends' have repeatedly called and threatened the new teacher and the police were called. The welfare of the other teacher who shares the same flat is in jeopardy as well, and it is not fair.

Turkey is generally safe, but there are some bad people around. This poster had a bottle thrown following a visit to a market store in the city of Ankara. The culprit threw the bottle because foreigner would not buy lahmacun and drinks for several Turkish louts. Really a savage people once the smiles and laughs have been disposed of. The inner core is rotten.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

GHOST !

Do us all a favour. Either give up the role of the whinging pommy or head back to Blighty !

Byzantine · Joined: 19 Sep 2003 Posts: 55 Location: Southwest

I spent two years in Istanbul. The Turkey Ghost describes doesn't sound at all like the Turkey I went to.

How one can be bored in the land of the Hittites, Greeks, Romans, Persians, Byzantines, and Arabs is beyond me.

Anyone with any interest in history would find Turkey a heaven on earth.

What's more, the people are great.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

But there are only about 15 million people in Istanbul. How can there be nothing to do in a city that size?

Mike_2003 · Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 344 Location: Bucharest, Romania

Admittedly, there is less to do in Istanbul than perhaps in other major western cities, it tends to be less socially orientated in terms of clubs and societies and other activities, but it's still a good city to be in.

I remember sitting in a rooftop bar over looking the Bosphorus and the Halic with a couple of good friends sipping ice-cold beer on a glorious summer day, shooting the breeze about all kinds of subjects and feeling rather lucky. Ok, so I can't afford a car or a morgage...but...hold on, those are probably positives too... Smile

yaramaz · Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:24 am Post subject:

Ghost, kindly stop bringing up my former SA colleague as an example of how cruelly the Turks treat Yabancis. You weren't there, you don't know what happened. For the record, only three people caused problems for him, one of whom was his boss who had had problems with him for months (long story) and the other two were a married couple who told him he couldn't stay with them because the husband was going to be out of town. As far as I know, they weren't particularly close and had just gone out drinking and clubbing a few times together, usually with our dept. This poor abandoned colleague is still in contact with several teachers here who chat with him on MSN Messenger. He also owes a lot to the Turks who gave him free legal help and a free place to stay during the week he tried to overturn the school's decision. His situation could have occurred anywhere- I've had worse office politics in Canada. It was not a Turks-Are-Savage situation, because so many came to his rescue, uncompensated and generous.

daveryan · Joined: 20 Aug 2003 Posts: 40

"The welfare of the other teacher who shares the same flat is in jeopardy as well, and it is not fair" Laughing

I live in hope that you refer to yourself.

By the way if you wish to take this as a further sign of my supposed thuggish tendencies....please feel free. I have moved beyond wanting to show you my wild-flower collection towards a desire to beat you over the head with it.

It amazes me that I find someone that I have never, nor hopefully am ever likely to meet, so objectionable. In the time that I have been following posts on this site I have grown to actively dislike you, a fact that in itself amazes me as I consider myself to be on the whole a tolerant and forgiving person. However, you have managed; through your continual moaning, racism, bullying abuse of other well intentioned, and interesting posters, your boring prejudiced rants, your tedious whining....to genuinely irritate me.

As you might be aware I long to be in Turkey, a country that I have known and loved over twenty years or so, and will be as soon as finances permit. Ok, I will accept that not everyones experiences will have been the same as mine; but however bad things have been for you, I cannot see how this can justify your plain nastiness. If you dislike the place so much why doesn't "one" pack ones' bags and leave. I am sure that Turkey would be a better place without you.....why continue to pollute it with your presence?

Dave R

ghost · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia

A contract was signed and one is fulfilling it. There are other places one would rather be, but the school manager is good and fair and one does not just get up and leave. The students seem to appreciate the lessons given and the accompanying sense of humor. These are all University students from the local Universities. Other students are apathetic, but the other instructors also have those. It is normal because most of the students study and come here at night to study which makes for a long day. One thing is certain - teaching in Latin America was much more rewarding.

Just because one vents on this site does not mean that one is not fulfilling the job requirements. Up till now this poster has had no complaints in the new job...and had there been complaints one would have learned about them quickly because at this particular school students are free to 'shop around' and change instructors.

All the above does not mean that poster is happy here, but behaving responsibly is the minimum that one can do. One is looking down the road to leaving but not before the courses are completed with the different levels and assessments made and handed in.

Venting is therapeutic and healthy. Those who cannot face the truth should press the delete button.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

I pressed the delete button and nothing happened. Your moans and groans were still there. BTW where is your good and fair manager from? Surely not Turkish?

yaramaz · Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 7:17 am Post subject:

Why does One never refer to Oneself as I?

O, and Dave, where did the "The welfare of the other teacher who shares the same flat is in jeopardy as well, and it is not fair" quote come from? One does not remember seeing it Very Happy

ghost · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia

Folks - another example of the stupidity which prevails in this country.

Did you notice that on TRT channel they are showing the Wimbledon tennis championships now (that's right folks....5 months after the event). Other recent 'events' on TRT channel included showing footage from the World Athletics Championships for seven nights running...never mind the fact that these championships were held last August in Paris.

Of course the vast majority of Turks have no interest in Athletics anyway, so why the channels broadcast these events is a mystery only the Turks know about. An example of the general tunnel vision of the Turks. This posters' Intermediate class were asked about the Turkish female runner (originally from Ethiopia) who finished second to Paula Radcliffe in last weekend's Euro. cross country championships held in Edinburgh (Scotland). None of them know who she was....nor did they care.....

They often show (on TRT) the Winter Olympics ice hockey matches back from Salt Lake City (2002?)....absolutely ridiculous...for example women hockey matches between Sweden and the U.S.A. which 99.9% of the Turks have no interest in.

Also look at trashy Turkish t.v. and those programs which mimic the trash newspapers.

Last week for 3 days running they showed a scenario in which two women were 'illegally' singing in one of the Istanbul metro places. The scene shown (and repeated a hundred times ad. nauseum) was the one in which the two women were arrested by Turkish security officers....the women being dragged off screaming, shouting and kicking....

The above scene was repeated so many times it really does make you feel sorry for these Turks who obviously relish such trash.