Job Discussion Forums

[just_a_mirage]

The other thing that you are being screwed out of is your social security. Here in Ecuador, you dont have to wait to receive your social security when you are of retirement age. You can withdraw it or, take a loan against it after approximately two years. Even more importantly, if you are working on a legitimate work visa, and your social secueity is being paid AS IT LEGALLY MUST BE, you are entitled to free medical care through IESS or social security. If they are not employing you legally as they should be, then you are being denied the medical coverage that you are entitled to as a worker in Ecuador. Also, the government is cracking down on volunteer visas that are being requested inappropriately. A for-profit school cannot legally request a volunteer visa for an employee. New proof is being required when you apply for the volunteer visas to make sure that you are, in fact, volunteering. The same with cultural exchange visas. Your organization must also place Ecuadorian teachers overseas to be eligible to recieve the Cultural Exchange visas.

[sendintheclowns]

I agree with the above posters in theory. If you are working, you should have a work visa. At least, thats the understanding that had been ingrained in me before coming here.

In practice however, ´legality´is very different in Ecuador than it is in the States. If you argue that point, you are denying and underestimating what is a fact of life in Ecuador . If you show up at the border and say, "I´m here to work," they´ll want a work visa. Obviously.

This is not a forum about international law. This is a forum about working as a teacher in Ecuador and how to accomplish that. If you plan to work in Ecuador, you should be aware that this is a country where the police kidnapped the president and people weren´t even that worried.

I´m not defending the idea that employers should not provide their employees with a legal means of working. If you want a work visa, Canadian House Center will help you get one. They might not pay for one, but they will help you with the paper work, contacting lawyers etc.

I´m simply trying to convey that if you want to come to Ecuador to work, you can do so without a work visa. You can obtain paperwork that allows you to stay over your 90 days, and you´ll be able to sleep at night without fear that la migra is coming to deport you.

It may not be "legal" according to my narrow definition based on Western standards, but neither is kidnapping a president. Things work differently here and rather than speaking in the abstract and idealistic, recognize that theres a great deal of difference between that and how it actually works in Ecuador.

[HLJHLJ]

What has the coup got to do with anything? Yes things work differently in Ecuador, and for many years there have been all sorts of goings on with visas. But right now, and for the last 6 months to a year, the government have massively cracked down on it. Employers paying under the table and play silly beggars with visas can, and do get caught, and their employees suddenly find themselves in a very difficult situation, with a revoked visa, no pay, a hefty fine to pay and just a couple of days to get out of the country.

Aside from all that, if people want to work for an employer who is going to use tax evasion as an excuse for seriously underpaying them, whilst doing them out of all the safety nets and benefits they ought to be entitled to, then as long as they have made an informed decision that's up to them, their conscience and their sense of self preservation.

What I am concerned about is the amount of misinformation fed to prospective teachers, first the ones who, in the past, have been told that they will get visas and didn't, and the current ones if they are being told they are being provided with legitimate, legal visas, and they aren't.

[sendintheclowns]

[just_a_mirage]

My intention certainly isnt to single out any school or institution. But after spending most of the last decade living and working here in Ecuador, I think I do have a pretty realistic view of how things work. I think any institution that allows employees to work on a tourist visa is running a terrible risk for themselves, and their employees, particularly in light of the recent crackdown on employment laws. A friend of mine who has worked here for years teaching on a volunteer visa recently had her visa revoked because the government changed the rules and decided that what she did wasn´t volunteering, but in fact working. If an institution can get you a work visa, or falls under the regulations governing volunteers then a volunteer visa is great. But prospective teachers should know that as HLJHLJ said, they can face some serious consequences if they work on a tourist visa. In the past, the government did not enforce these things. They do now. I would not want to come halfway around the world to work knowing that I was breaking the law, and could face severe consequences if caught.

[portugina]

I personally think that there are too many comments made about the CHC from people who know nothing about the school and everything they have to offer. They actually give back to the community with all sorts of donations. They are also a school for the masses their prices are low so that everyone has the opportunity to learn with a native teacher, they only hire native English teachers.

Now I have heard a whole lot of BS about visas on this site and I really wish people would actually look into things they way they truly are rather than stating things as if they know it all. I would really like to clear a few things such as working legally as a teacher on a 9-IV visa?????? NO it is for tourists, students, athletes, artists and commercial acts. Commercial acts being buying and selling within Ecuador, not teaching, So in reality those who claim that you can work legally on this visa are wrong they are simply working on a 6 month TOURIST VISA. Also working with a RUC on a volunteer visa, WHAT! I guess you got luck and got a real idiot at the SRI office. How could a person who is supposedly volunteering their time get facturas to charge people for their services. Perhaps its been done but it wasn't legal either.

Bottom line, if a school can fulfill the requirements for volunteer or cultural exchange visas then why not they are easier to obtain both by the teacher and school. I have seen many people be refused a work visa in their countries simply because they don't have money in the bank. I a school will sponsor a teacher and be financially responsible for them, then why not. A work visa if always harder and often not available in Ecuador, very few will be granted. Lets not the silly remarks about tax invasion because what an employer pay for an employee truly isn't much and part has to come from the employee. The fact that you could get a free check up at the IESS hospital is minimal since a consultation won't cost you more then $5 at the other government run clinics.

Teaching in Ecuador isn't about the pay it's about the experience and adventure. I know that the CHC always tries to make their teachers feel welcomed and at home in another country. They do go the distance to help and don't just leave them out there to figure it all out on their own because there are many schools out there that do just that. I would like to invite those who are here in Ecuador to visit the CHC in Loja so that you con see first hand what type of school it is.

[HLJHLJ]

I personally think there are too many comments by one-post wonders in support of CHC, which just makes me even more suspicious and cyncial. But we are all entitled to our opinions.

[just_a_mirage]

I guess that teaching in Ecuador means different things to different people. I consider myself a professional, and am trained and educated as a teacher. Along the way, I have taught with many native speakers who did their students a horrible injustice because they were not trained and indeed, saw teaching as a way to fund their "adventure". Minimum wage here is $240 dollars per month. Perhaps paying $10, $20, or $30 dollars per month might seem cheap to you, but for many its a good portion of their salary. If you are not trained, not experienced, and are just in it for the "adventure", you are doing a disservice to your students. Being a native speaker doesnt automatically make you a good teacher.
I help people obtain various visas, resident, and non-resident, and according to Migracion in Guayaquil, as of my last visit Friday, it IS legal to work on a 12-IX visa, provided that you obtain a RUC number. It is NOT legal to work on a 90 day tourist visa, as you CANNOT obtain a RUC number.
Again, my comments are not directed at any institution, (and by the way, I HAVE visited CH)
My objectives in writing my posts are in making sure that prospective teachers understand that no matter who they are working for, they will be working illegally for any institution that permits them to work on a 90 day tourist visa.
Also, I care deeply for the Ecuadorian people and think its a shame when they spend their hard-earned money to pay a teacher who is not trained, and is here only for "experience and adventure".

[sendintheclowns]

[rsteckbeck]

I am the teacher that was threatened to be killed.... First off this was my first job in ecuador ... I sincerely hope that not one person judges Ecuador in comparasion to this place. I must explain.... One night we were not asked but forced to go to loja to attend a teacher's meeting there... While I was there all of the teachers had gone out for whatever reason and the owner was drunk(Diego) I had recommended that he not drive due to his intoxication when I suggested that he take a taxi this the owner responded "do you think you are better than me" which severly confused me.... I dismissed the comment and proceeded to my friend's house. However, they were having a party that night. Although, I had participated very little in that party I had gone outside to smoke a cigarette where once again without doing anything I was confronted by the owner where I was told " maybe you are someone in the us but here you are s$&* and if I want you dead I can have you killed for very little money" so obviously I am not a fan of this company. The frachise was sold to another person who was quite a good person however, with no ethics he opened a competing school in the same city and he controlled which students and which teachers taught where ....which eventually put the person who opened the franchise and paid for the license out of business. I had to contact to us embassy and report him as a threat to my life as to what he had commented to early in my job there. I would not recommend this school to anyone. There are no ethics there and the teachers are well underpaid. The us embassy is currently aware of his threats towards me and if anything is to happen to me he is to be held responsible. Do not accept a job here there are much better schools in Ecuador....

[Chancellor]

When I was looking into Canada House, I was told by the school that teachers would be expected to advertise for the school (as in go out on the street corner and hand out flyers, much the way Bible-thumpers hand out their little tracts).

[Englishhemp]

The problem with Canada House is that they promise you a lot and then you wind up working illegally. If you are coming from overseas and arrange everything in advance then maybe it´s different. But my experience as a teacher there was that the administration in Loja had no scruples pushing teachers between a rock and a hardplace with regard to their nebulous immigration practices. They were sending the passports under the table to Peru, had teachers who´s VISAS had expired, and would continually lie to their teachers about their status and plans. I wouldn´t recommend Canada House to anyone. I knew teachers who were fired as soon as they started trying to do things by Ecuadorian law. The administration in Loja is corrupt, it´s a little better in Cuenca and Machala---from what I have heard---but they are still under the thumb of Loja. They were threatening to deport teachers for not doing things their way and it was all a very sloppy approach to everything. I was promised a one year VISA and then told it was six months and then told it was nothing. Canada House has a way of talking to you in circles and blaming the Ecuadorian law, but some other teachers and I started investigating and found that it wasn´t the Ecuadorian law that made it difficult but rather just lack of will on the part of Canada House.

[Englishhemp]

Canada House was a huge deception for me. I´d been used to teaching in less than ideal circumstances, but nothing could have prepared me for the lengths that the Canada House Center was willing to go to decieve teachers.

Upon arriving in Loja they promised me a lot --- following up on mail contact I´d had with Gloria. The first sign that something was amis was when they announced that the Ecuadorian law had changed and this meant there wasn´t time to do the VISA. They then sent my passport to Peru through their channels in immigration. Most of the other teachers I knew also had their passports sent to Peru. This meant that the whole time we were working we were stamped into Peru (which later meant that Canada House could claim we were never really working for them in the first place). So for the first six months, I was actually stamped into Peru. All this time Gloria and Rene kept saying a one year contract was just around the corner. Gloria is the manager at Loja.

In house politics weren´t any better. I saw them institute a system whereby teachers could be fined by CHC for showing up 5 minutes late, or smelling bad, or not making lesson plans, or not grading papers in time, or staying on break too long etc, etc. In Loja Diego threatened teachers with deportation for not playing by the rules.

I kept asking them about the VISAS, but as time drew closer to the deadline, they all kept suggesting I work for Canada House illegally. Then Gloria informed me that I had quit, even though I was still teaching. She advised me to leave Ecuador ASAP. I wrote to the owners, but was told I had damaged my ability to work for them by trying to do things legally. Rene, who manages all the passports, is out of control and has the power to stop people working for CHC and officially he´s just another teacher, but they have him paying bribes to immigration and sending the passports under the table I suspect because he´s Ecuadorian and has no scruples. Probably Canada House really wants to have good teachers and have some intention of follow-through, but then wind up just keeping teachers under the radar. The guy who manages the passports is one of the only Ecuadorian teacehrs at CHC Loja and Gloria and Diego just give him carte-blance and trust that he{s doing what he says. Unfortunately he is a liar and a gossip and is the one with the real power to say who can and who can´t stay at CHC. His name is Rene and together with Gloria, Michelle and Diego they run the three Canada House brances like their own private dictatorship.

I wouldn´t recommend anyone to be a teacher at CHC unless all paperwork for VISAS can be arranged in advance and from overseas. They even keep changing the story about how long the VISAS are for. Canada House suffers from a shortage of teachers and in Cuenca have started employing non-native speakers just because it´s getting harder to keep north Americans and Europeans interested once they wise-up to the Canada House corruption.

One more thing. The Canada House administration staff is able to appeal to the changing laws in Ecuador about immigration and VISAS to confuse the students. Beware it´s only a smokescrean. A ruse. I saw teachers educate themselves and then confront CHC and say basically, ¨Look, why can´t we do this all legal¨ and then those teachers were given the finger. There are institutes in Ecuador who DO do things legally for teachers. So it´s not as impossible as Canada House makes it seem, meanwhile while they are blaming you for having your passport screwed up, while they throw out excuses about changing laws in their efforts to escape legal transparency.

A wealth of information is available online from all the retired North Americans in Cuenca --- so it´s better to have ones facts in hand before putting onself at the mercy of the Canada House Centers. It can actually be dangerous for teachers to work for Canada House. In one case another teacher had a VISA expire and they reported her to the American Embassy before she could do anything. They broke into her house with the police and injected her, sending her to a mental hospital. Diego told us that we are in Ecuador at the Canada House Center´s mercy. The Canda House Center is a joke, but if you look at who´s doing the laughing...it´s not their former teachers. I´ve seen a lot of teachers quit because of the illegality of everything. In fact, so many people have gotten upset that now Canada House has had to stop advertising that their teachers are native speakers, just because native speakers won´t put up with the mistreatment and the nonsense. They say they are certified to give the Cambridge Exams and even use the Southern Cross logo on their fliars. Complete and utter nonsense. It might work for teachers if everything is arranged before hand with the embassies from abroad, but only then.

[Englishhemp]

Some of the observations and commentary about work VISAS not being required in Ecuador because Ecuador has a culture of an informal workforce is rather misleading. You can work informally your whole life and it is not considered illegal --- if you are Ecuadorian. The problem with people coming from other countries, and why a work VISA is absolutely necessary, is because you are only allowed two months out of a year to be in Ecuador. For people who are coming with a lot of money and just plan to be in Ecuador for a couple months working then no problem. But if you are going to stay for more time you absolutely need a work VISA, not because working without one is illegal per-se but because staying in the country most definitely is. Try staying past the limit and see what happens to you when you try to get back. You can take your two months out of a year or spread out...but it goes by fast. I knew a couple that wanted to get married and because the man had already been in Ecuador a month, he had to wait a whole year to come back to get married because it took a little over a month for the paperwork to be processed. There are also stiff fines when you leave, prohibitions, generally all bad news if you pass the time limit alloted.

[just_a_mirage]

Englishhemp is correct about the importance of working on a visa with a few discrepencies. I am a teacher, but also a visa facilitator in Ecuador and have been for quite a few years.

You actually are allowed 90 days per year on the T3 stamp or regular tourist stamp that you receive when you enter the country. You can also pay for a 12-IX visa before or after entering the country. This costs $230 dollars and allows you a total of 180 days in the country. Your friend who wanted to get married could have applied for this in country and recieved 180 days, minus time already spent here.

It is very difficult to actually get a work visa here, in part because you must have a contract to get the visa. It is difficult for institutions to give contracts to non-residents because they are supposed to enroll you in social security, which you need a cedula for. You can apply for a RUC number on most any visa except the T-3 stamp, but it is a lot of red tape to write a contract with that, and most employers wont do it. People can and do work legally on the 12-IX visa, but it is good for only 180 days and cannot be renewed. You cannot get another one until you have spent at least nine months out of the country.

Many of the people working here do so on Cultural Exchange visas, which are allowed for institutions that have cultural exchange agreements with institutions in other countries and have registered with the government. Others work on volunteer visas....technically not legal, but as long as you get a RUC number and file your taxes, you are for the most part left alone. I have a coworker from the Dominican Republic who has been doing this for 26 years! Some get student visas and get RUC numbers and work on those. In all honesty though, most of the foreigners that I see working here long term are like me, doing so on resident visas because they have married Ecuadorians. Unlike Peru or Costa Rica for example, it is not possible to border hop and get your visa renewed.

Also, the story about the teacher with the expired visa being reported to the US embassy makes no sense. The American Embassy does not care if you are illegal in Ecuador, and wont do anything. It is up to the actual country you are in to decide whether or not you stay or leave. Nor would the Ecuadorians expend the energy to inject someone and send them to a mental hospital (My significant other is Policia Nacional and I was asked to help interpret for folks picked up on expired visas) Really, they dont care. They will tell you in most cases that you need to leave the country, and you pay your $200 or so fee, and you leave. Unless you are blatently breaking the law or causing some sort of significant problem, they wont go looking for you.