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Italain men
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austeacher



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 91
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed it is my loss teacher in Rome. I stick by what I said. I don't think either Germans or French people are great. And I will not go on a harangue about history as both those people owe a lot to the Italians in terms of culture, art, architecture, politics and the genius of invention. I lose; Italians win.
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Tainan



Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the men thing just a joke but thanks for housing advice. i just write in slang on here i do have an English degree so no worries. 2 /3 months do you know if some li can neg with somelords to give 1 month deposit. thanks


Sorry, and I really do not want to be offensive here, but rather just honest: something like what I quote above seems to me to go far beyond "slang". I had trouble reading it. Does this sort of writing seem easier? Or more attractive? Is it what comes naturally? I'd honestly like to know. And yes, coming from someone proposing to teach the language, it does disturb me.
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shin12



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah never mind
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Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1207

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Veering off the original topic (though might not be such a bad thing!) but it's strange to hear such blanket condemnation of entire groups of people (Austeacher). My degree was in French and I spent a year there - met some great people, fully versed in civilisation, culture, language and architecture! Maybe you haven't met the right people yet? Would def recommend a visit - you've got the whole of the Midi in close range to NW Italy to explore.
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austeacher



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 91
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teacher in Rome said:Veering off the original topic (though might not be such a bad thing!) but it's strange to hear such blanket condemnation of entire groups of people (Austeacher). My degree was in French and I spent a year there - met some great people, fully versed in civilisation, culture, language and architecture! Maybe you haven't met the right people yet? Would def recommend a visit - you've got the whole of the Midi in close range to NW Italy to explore.

I say: Your degree was in French. If you love them and their language so much then go back there; and leave the Italians alone. Italians don't need the french, they need the Italians.
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Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1207

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

???

Austeacher, I'm perfectly happy in Italy, but I also like France and the French (those I've met) a great deal too. I've also met a good number of nice Aussies and even visited Australia, but wouldn't necessarily want to live there... My point is that it's strange to condemn an entire nation of people - as you seem to do with France and Germany. I also suggested you might like to go and visit France one day to see for yourself! You might even find, horror of horrors, that there are lots of similarities between France / the French and Italy / the Italians.
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shin12



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good on you teacher in Rome i completely agree. People on here are way to quick to judge and that is sickening.
Pass me the bucket .. Mad
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austeacher



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 91
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

??????

There are similarities between the Italians and French because the fRench are a carbon copy of the Italians. I condemn the French because they owe a lot to Italy and the French would go as far as denying the Italians have had any influence on them whatsoever.

In addition to that, the Italians will welcome foreign visitors in their community even if they speak fractured Italian. Nor do Italians expect you to speak their language upon arrival to their country. Italians will also endear foreigners who make the effort to pick up a few words here and there.

On the otherhand, the french expect any foreign visitor to speak their language with fluidity and will even berate individuals who attempt to utter a few words in fernch. They will expect anyone and everyone to bow to their culture and claim that their culture is the most enlightened and influential on the globe. It is not the case, far from it infact, as the Italians post-Renaissance established the roots for French and European enlightenment. The French will vehemently deny that too.

Another thing, the French are equally as racist as anyone else is. The Vichy regime sent thousands of French Jews to the gas chambers as the French Fascist regime courted the Nazis. So please don’t tell me the French are enlightened or cultured when they are as culpable as any other country, through out history for misdeeds against humanity. They also claim they are diplomatic too; only when it suits them of course. The fact of the matter is that the principle of diplomacy started in Italy and not France, however the Frogs will vehemently deny that too.

French culture is revisionist and will adapt paradigms according to their liking. Their education is tailored to suit the empiricism of principle, a principle based on asserting and endorsing ‘their’ point of view on the world. If those ideas are negated they start a revolution to meet their own ends that essentially have no bearing on the rest of the world. Infact none of their cowardly revolutions have had any impact on the world.

Napoleon Buonaparte. He was not French. Corsica was an Italian Kingdom until Genoa ceded Corsica to the French for war reparations. Napoleon may have been born in the first year Corsica was ceded to France, but Corsican culture is clearly linked to the Pisans and Florentines and not much has changed since Corsica was ceded as the Corsicans have retained their Italianity and independancy. So the next time some one tells me Napoleon was french I will simply have to say they have been misinformed by the bigoted French.

I have met may people who have been to France and most of them said the people are ignorant morons. My friends and the people I have spoken to have said negative things about the French. My brother is a well travelled guy, informed and open minded and he had a bad time there too.

Now I will reiterate what I said in a previous post. If you love the frogs so much. Go back there and leave the Italians alone.
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Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1207

PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Another thing, the French are equally as racist as anyone else is. The Vichy regime sent thousands of French Jews to the gas chambers as the French Fascist regime courted the Nazis. So please don’t tell me the French are enlightened or cultured when they are as culpable as any other country, through out history for misdeeds against humanity.


How do you think Primo Levi got sent to a concentration camp... I think you'll find it was the Italian authorities who sent him there... Italy's role in World War II isn't the most blameless ever, as no doubt you will know. There's an old joke about the gears in Italian tanks, but you should really talk to Italians about their recent history. Are you currently in Italy?

I don't quite understand why you think I should "leave the Italians alone". I pay my taxes, contribute to INPS; teach the children of neighbours, friends, doctors and bricklayers... I would say that I'm trusted and respected in my - admittedly small - community. As a teacher I respect difference in nationality, religion, skin colour, sexual orientation - whatever factors small-minded and ignorant people routinely trot out as an excuse to hate. For one simple reason - I get all types in my classes, and all types are equally welcome to learn and participate. Prejudice is quite simply the mark of someone who knows no better. Shame that it's also the defining mark of some who call themselves teachers.
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Nmarie



Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 84
Location: Paris

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
On the otherhand, the french expect any foreign visitor to speak their language with fluidity and will even berate individuals who attempt to utter a few words in fernch.


This might have been an argument eons ago, but in the modern world, it is a skewed generalization at best. Paris, especially, is quite accustomed to throngs of tourists, and those working in hospitality are accustomed to speaking English. My husband runs two restaurant/bars in the center of the city, and I’ve witnessed absolutely no rancor on the part of staff with regard to foreigners who speak English or less than perfect French – and, no, they do NOT expect foreign customers to speak French. It really is an automatic switch to English (or English attempt!), and without attitude.
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Sheikh Inal Ovar



Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208
Location: Melo Drama School

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can recommend a book that would change austeacher's mind on the matter ..

"How Not to Look
Like a Total Idiot"
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austeacher



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 91
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teacher in Rome now feels assured that he has two other people to assert his propositions. Now it is time to bring it on and rock you all out of your easy chair. I will deal with Teacher in Rome first:

He said: How do you think Primo Levi got sent to a concentration camp... I think you'll find it was the Italian authorities who sent him there.
I said: That is axiomatic. The Italians had no choice. They were forced in to an un-winable war by both Mussolini and Hitler. Besides it was at Hitler’s decree that, according to the genocidal policy of racial annihilation, all Jews must be sent to their death. Either the Italians sent them there or the Germans were to come in personally and ship them off themselves.

Teacher in Rome said: There's an old joke about the gears in Italian tanks, but you should really talk to Italians about their recent history. Are you currently in Italy?

I said: Yes I am well aware of the Italians circumstances during WW2. They were fighting a war in which they were to lose. This was predicted by Mussolini’s brother in law, Ciano. He urged Mussolini on numerous occasions not to ally himself with Hitler as he would be lead to utter failure and would eventually suffer downfall. Mussolini never listened and Ciano was eventually murdered by Mussolini’s thugs. The story around Ciano’s death is bizarre and reads like a grotesque joke gone wrong.
The joke about the gears: The Italians were heavily reliant on Hitler for resources, arsenal and military equipment. They were fighting with munitions dating WW1. It has long been the thorn in the heel of Italy that she has had to rely on imported raw materials from abroad. During WW2 it was in the case of reliance on Germany as the allies were against both Germany and Italy. To this very day in 2009, Italy has had to rely on imported raw materials to create and make her own products, completed, to a finished product. I don’t know if teacher in Rome knows this, but Italy is heavily reliant on imported raw materials and natural resources which is not the case for Germany, France, Russia etc.

So it is no wonder, the joke about the brakes has continued up to this very day. The quality of their products was of low grade. Italy had to cut corners as she was mass producing munitions for a war. This has all changed of course since 1955. I am also assuming you are implying Italians were cowardly. Maybe, but does the evacuation of Dunkirk ring a bell? Don’t get too personal Teacher in Rome as I have not attacked British imperialism.

You asked a question about my location?: I am lost on a pacific Island. I am not in Italy

So you pay your taxes, that’s nice. So does the rest of the world. What I meant to imply when I stated to leave Italy alone is this. Appreciate the country, as I am sure you do, but also realize that Italy is undervalued as a contributor both politically and economically in Europe. Realize also that Italians are well versed in the cultural rivalries that exist, because they do exist. I hate it when individuals do not speak up about opinions. I know you are British, and the Brits themselves dislike the French –not all of them of course- for their arrogant behaviour and self- righteous attitude. I am not the first one to voice prejudice. Maybe you ought to visit U-Tube some time to really find all those French right wing nationalists voicing their hate towards the Brits and Americans, to say the least.
Perhaps you have not met prejudiced or bigoted teachers, or you live in a bubble, but they are out there and I am not the first one to make what you claim are ‘baseless and unfounded assertions about the french’, nor am I the last.

Now it is time to dissect Nmarie’s statement:
Nmarie said: This might have been an argument eons ago, but in the modern world, it is a skewed generalization at best.
I said: no it is not skewed. French arrogancy and attitudes towards foreigners is as current now as it was aeons ago. I did not appear out of the purple colored trees with green glasses to attack the French merely out of caprice. I am stating the truth and the facts. It is still happening today.
Nmarie said: My husband runs two restaurant/bars in the center of the city, and I’ve witnessed absolutely no rancor on the part of staff with regard to foreigners who speak English or less than perfect French – and, no, they do NOT expect foreign customers to speak French. It really is an automatic switch to English (or English attempt!), and without attitude.

I said: Your staff can not afford to lose their jobs in the current economic climate. I bet they are hiding behind some U-tube pen name and making threatening insults to all foreigners when they finish their shifts.
I worked in restaurants for years. I even worked under one French chef, racially French. He was one arrogant piece of turd and agro too! Most of the time he spoke French with his assistant. I never knew what was being said. Was I meant to learn French then? This was not aeons ago, this was in 2004.

Now it is melodramatic monkey to take his turn on the rostrum:
Sheik said: I can recommend a book that would change austeacher's mind on the matter:
"How Not to Look Like a Total Idiot"

I said: I can recommend a book that will make you look smarter than you appear to be.
“How to be politically correct at your choosing”
I am not the first politically unorthodox teacher to strut the pages of Dave’s ESL café. Nor will I be the last. My question to Sheikh monkey is this. Have you worked with both Italian and French people and have you seen the marked difference in attitude exhibited by their cultural differences and cultural rivalries? Then my next question is: Who appears the more humble of the ethnically diverse two? Then my next question is: Have you lived in both countries and are you currently in France? As you apparently sound like a Francophile.

Now sheikh monkey. If you really want to meet and hear the comments of idiots, you ought to try and spend time with artists, musicians and entertainers. If they are the assumed benefactors of humanity then prey to God that when everyone recognizes there a bigots and racists in every industry the world’s population can then seek the correct advice on taking ‘Zoloft tablets’. Your politically orthodox views are similar to everybody else’s. Defend when you can, surrender when you can’t.
Three against one. I am waiting to hear the unconventional thoughts of others. There are plenty of idiots in the world, aren’t there Shiekh monkey?
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Sheikh Inal Ovar



Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208
Location: Melo Drama School

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your ego is much larger than your IQ

Let's look at your great proof!

Quote:
I have met may people who have been to France and most of them said the people are ignorant morons. My friends and the people I have spoken to have said negative things about the French. My brother is a well travelled guy, informed and open minded and he had a bad time there too.


Well that's hardly enough to earn you a PhD now is it ...

    Research Method - chatted to my bruver and a few uvers who'd also 'ad a bad time at the 'ands of them frogs


Anyone with the slightest amount of intelligence knows it is meaningless to generalise about a whole people based on an extremely limited set of experiences ..

Most educated people would understand the difference between "I found them to be ..." and "They are ..."

You boast of how unorthodox you are, and yet you're simply adhering to a stereotype that is popular with the uneducated, monolingual masses of English speaking countries ..

... how do you know that those that behaved in that manner to you, your brother, and the other moaning minnies would have behaved in the same manner to others ... looking at the profile you have given us on this thread, if I were French, I would deliberately pretend not to understand your efforts at French just to get rid of you ...

You boast of how unorthodox you are, and yet in typical orthodox fashion your opinion is guided more by emotion than by logic ..
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austeacher



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 91
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheikh monkey said: Your ego is much larger than your IQ. Let's look at your great proof!

I said: Yes I have a moderate ego but my HQ is high. Fact: Italians have the highest IQ in Europe. I think I hit your raw nerve on a balanced note.

Quote:
I have met may people who have been to France and most of them said the people are ignorant morons. My friends and the people I have spoken to have said negative things about the French. My brother is a well travelled guy, informed and open minded and he had a bad time there too.

Research method: This was not part of any form of research to denigrate the French as it is neither hearsay nor spin. The truth of matter is; that it is the truth of the matter.
No, I am not doing a PhD. Nor do I want to do a PhD. I am considering masters though. Does that answer your hypothesis about me doing further study?

Sheikh Charlatan said: Anyone with the slightest amount of intelligence knows it is meaningless to generalise about a whole people based on an extremely limited set of experiences.

I said: What you have just stated is highly probable and highly likely that it is wrong to generalize. However, it is very unlikely and not probable that the people I have spoken to that had those experiences will not refute their assertions based on the experiences they had. Nor have these people any links or connections to each other to support the claim I have made about the French being arrogant and bigoted as they are.

It may be wrong to generalize as it takes the position of bigotry and myopia. However, please don’t claim you are not bigoted in the least as it is an inherent make up of humanity. Unless of course, as you pen name assumes, you are the unfallible infidel and you are morally righteous and all of Western civilization is influenced by the devil.

Sheikh diversionist said: Most educated people would understand the difference between "I found them to be ..." and "They are ..."
I said: What on earth are you babbling about?

Sheikh mohammed said: You boast of how unorthodox you are, and yet you're simply adhering to a stereotype that is popular with the uneducated, monolingual masses of English speaking countries.

I said: I do not adhere to what the masses have said stereotype or no stereotype. I see you are a purist and you do not have set opinions about ethnic idiosyncracies as you are a holy man, and you observe full faith in God that I too will be destroyed along with all other Americans. I didn’t ask you to give me a measure on my unorthodoxy. Nor do I represent the heterodox uneducated English speaking mono-linguists. That is your claim not mine. I do not endorse other peoples opinions. However, it has come to light that the experiences had by the paucity I know, and myself, that to date, the French I have met are arrogant ignorant morons.

Detective Sheikh Charlatan Mohammed the inquisitor said: ... how do you know that those that behaved in that manner to you, your brother, and the other moaning minnies would have behaved in the same manner to others ... looking at the profile you have given us on this thread, if I were French, I would deliberately pretend not to understand your efforts at French just to get rid of you ...

Blundering King of gaffs said: Are you assuming, that my bother and the ‘moaning minnies’ deserved what they (and I got) got because the French people who treated them in a particular fashion are victims themselves of some misconduct? They probably are victims of some misunderstanding themselves. Hypothetically who can assume then who started what? Answer that.

Sheikh Akbal said: looking at the profile you have given us on this thread, if I were French, I would deliberately pretend not to understand your efforts at French just to get rid of you ...

I said: I’m scared. I wouldn’t even visit France if I won the lottery and France was a free destination. Yes it is my loss, but do you think I care? You are the Franco-phile not me.

Sheikh Mohammed said: You boast of how unorthodox you are, and yet in orthodox fashion your opinion is guided more by emotion than by logic

I said: You said my opinion is guided by emotion. Is it? I must bow down to you as you have supernatural powers and you are able to read my mind. If you don’t like my rationalization of the French why have you replied to the posting? Because you work in France? Or is it because you are having some cheap shots at fun?

Sheikh monkey said: and by the way, with its total lack of academic discipline, your pseudo- academic style of writing looks ridiculous ... like a pig in a suit

I said: It’s called ‘Gonzo Journalism’. And if you don’t like it go and read Descartes. But don’t forget Descartes was influenced by the Italians. You don’t like that either do you? I sense fulmination in your logic too. And I will clearly state, you are as emotional as I am. Unless of course you were programmed by an infidel computer technician.
This has nothing to do with an academic paper I am writing. I did not say that, you said that. Yes it is pseudo-academic because as I already stated; and if it is still unclear to your dense brain, it has nothing to do with an academic paper. Clear?

I am waiting for a retort off the Sheikh that will assail me with the label of neo-fascist………….pay close attention folks as the saga continues as Sheikh charlatan steals the limelight.
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Sheikh Inal Ovar



Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208
Location: Melo Drama School

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sheikh monkey said: Your ego is much larger than your IQ. Let's look at your great proof!

I said: Yes I have a moderate ego but my HQ is high. Fact: Italians have the highest IQ in Europe. I think I hit your raw nerve on a balanced note.

Quote:
I have met may people who have been to France and most of them said the people are ignorant morons. My friends and the people I have spoken to have said negative things about the French. My brother is a well travelled guy, informed and open minded and he had a bad time there too.

Research method: This was not part of any form of research to denigrate the French as it is neither hearsay nor spin. The truth of matter is; that it is the truth of the matter.
No, I am not doing a PhD. Nor do I want to do a PhD. I am considering masters though. Does that answer your hypothesis about me doing further study?

Sheikh Charlatan said: Anyone with the slightest amount of intelligence knows it is meaningless to generalise about a whole people based on an extremely limited set of experiences.

I said: What you have just stated is highly probable and highly likely that it is wrong to generalize. However, it is very unlikely and not probable that the people I have spoken to that had those experiences will not refute their assertions based on the experiences they had. Nor have these people any links or connections to each other to support the claim I have made about the French being arrogant and bigoted as they are.

It may be wrong to generalize as it takes the position of bigotry and myopia. However, please don’t claim you are not bigoted in the least as it is an inherent make up of humanity. Unless of course, as you pen name assumes, you are the unfallible infidel and you are morally righteous and all of Western civilization is influenced by the devil.

Sheikh diversionist said: Most educated people would understand the difference between "I found them to be ..." and "They are ..."
I said: What on earth are you babbling about?

Sheikh mohammed said: You boast of how unorthodox you are, and yet you're simply adhering to a stereotype that is popular with the uneducated, monolingual masses of English speaking countries.

I said: I do not adhere to what the masses have said stereotype or no stereotype. I see you are a purist and you do not have set opinions about ethnic idiosyncracies as you are a holy man, and you observe full faith in God that I too will be destroyed along with all other Americans. I didn’t ask you to give me a measure on my unorthodoxy. Nor do I represent the heterodox uneducated English speaking mono-linguists. That is your claim not mine. I do not endorse other peoples opinions. However, it has come to light that the experiences had by the paucity I know, and myself, that to date, the French I have met are arrogant ignorant morons.

Detective Sheikh Charlatan Mohammed the inquisitor said: ... how do you know that those that behaved in that manner to you, your brother, and the other moaning minnies would have behaved in the same manner to others ... looking at the profile you have given us on this thread, if I were French, I would deliberately pretend not to understand your efforts at French just to get rid of you ...

Blundering King of gaffs said: Are you assuming, that my bother and the ‘moaning minnies’ deserved what they (and I got) got because the French people who treated them in a particular fashion are victims themselves of some misconduct? They probably are victims of some misunderstanding themselves. Hypothetically who can assume then who started what? Answer that.

Sheikh Akbal said: looking at the profile you have given us on this thread, if I were French, I would deliberately pretend not to understand your efforts at French just to get rid of you ...

I said: I’m scared. I wouldn’t even visit France if I won the lottery and France was a free destination. Yes it is my loss, but do you think I care? You are the Franco-phile not me.

Sheikh Mohammed said: You boast of how unorthodox you are, and yet in orthodox fashion your opinion is guided more by emotion than by logic

I said: You said my opinion is guided by emotion. Is it? I must bow down to you as you have supernatural powers and you are able to read my mind. If you don’t like my rationalization of the French why have you replied to the posting? Because you work in France? Or is it because you are having some cheap shots at fun?

Sheikh monkey said: and by the way, with its total lack of academic discipline, your pseudo- academic style of writing looks ridiculous ... like a pig in a suit

I said: It’s called ‘Gonzo Journalism’. And if you don’t like it go and read Descartes. But don’t forget Descartes was influenced by the Italians. You don’t like that either do you? I sense fulmination in your logic too. And I will clearly state, you are as emotional as I am. Unless of course you were programmed by an infidel computer technician.
This has nothing to do with an academic paper I am writing. I did not say that, you said that. Yes it is pseudo-academic because as I already stated; and if it is still unclear to your dense brain, it has nothing to do with an academic paper. Clear?

I am waiting for a retort off the Sheikh that will assail me with the label of neo-fascist………….pay close attention folks as the saga continues as Sheikh charlatan steals the limelight.


They used to call that verbal diarrhoea ..

I suggest you get some incontinence tablets from your local doctor
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