Job Discussion Forums

[Knight]

Thanks again. All very good information, and things to keep in mind. You have all been kind with your help and I do appreciate it.

I'm "free" as of July 31, but not sure when I'll actually get there. Regarding the Schengen zone, if I left and went to Kiev, upon re-entry, would it be like starting the 90 days over again? (Just in case I had to do something like that.)

I'll keep in mind juggling the time appropriately. I have lots of research to do. That's why I'm getting started now.

I will check out ITTP. Thanks for the tip/lead/help Neville. While I found the CELTA training very useful, and I learned a lot, nothing beats hands-on experience. That I have plenty of.

...Guess I'd better get cracking with my "homework".

[spiral78]

Knight, unfortunately, the Schengen zone regulations now require non-EU citizens to be OUT of the zone for 90 days before re-entering for another 90. You'd have to stay in Kiev three months...just crossing the border and getting a stamp is no longer a legal option.

[ITTP]

This is also a gray area.

The law states that you can spend 90 days in the Schengen zone and after 90 days, if you don't have legal work set up and all papers arranged, you need to leave and you can then only return to the Schengen zone again after another 90 days.
ok, so this is what the law states.

What makes it confusing is that we have had clients from the US who have traveled back and forth from Schengen to non-Schengen zone without hassle over a period of 6 months.

Many of our clients also begin teaching while their work visa and work permit is being processed and they technically overstay their 90 days but begin teaching before their papers come through and receive no hassle at all.

I'm NOT suggesting that people take a chance and travel as they will between Schengen and non-Schengen states past their 90 day period. I'm just reporting what I have heard and it is clear that the law is more strictly enforced in W.Europe than it is in Central or Eastern Europe.

If you want to take in Kiev then to be absolutely safe and follow the law I would go to Ukraine first and then head to the Schengen zone. Alternatively you could arrive in the Schengen zone, arrange work and begin your work visa process and then take a short trip away if your classes don't start immediately.

It IS always best to abide by the current laws but what I want to express is that the law is sometimes very much subjectively defined in ex-soviet bloc countries.

Neville

ITTP Prague
Jungmannova 32
Prague 1

[Knight]

Noted. I think these immigration people (worldwide) spend too much time thinking up new rules, don't you? Oh well. That's the way it is. Thanks again. (Korea is getting this way now, too.)

Does the CR require police background checks, HIV tests, and drug tests? New to Korea (except I think they're dropping the HIV test-- cries of discrimination.)

(See, this is exactly the kind of information that is essential, yet often hard to find!!) When I was in Europe before, no one even asked to see my passport. Maybe times have changed. (*Sigh.)

[spiral78]

Times have indeed changed. I think there's a bit of backlash against the more open borders of the past. Things may loosen up again later on (hopefully) but at the moment the pendulum's swung quite far on the side of toughness.

HIV & drug tests still not the norm. You may need some document stating that you're not a felon.

[ITTP]

[Arab Strap]

Czech isn't Saudi.........yet, when they start asking for HIV tests and urine samples then we're on a slippery slope though I'm sure President Klaus would approve.

Do you still need police clearance from your home country as part of the zivnak (business licence) application process?

[Knight]

As recently as 2007, Korea was quite lax about visa requirements. If you were "white" (unspoken, of course) and from one of the six English-speaking countries, and had a degree, you were in. Then a few teachers got caught smoking (the devil) pot (which is SO illegal here, it would make your head spin, especially if you're a liberal Canadian!!!) We also had that Canadian teacher, a convicted pedophile, whom they caught in Thailand, and all hell broke loose. The public now seems to think many of us are degenerate, drug-addicted, pedophiles, thanks to a TV documentary. (Groupthink stuff. Oh joy) So, if you want to teach here, or already have a job here, you have to comply with the new regulations.

Of course, the new regulations were instituted hastily, without forethought, and unleashed a torrent of teacher backlash-- we got onto that "slippery slope". Now the foreign teachers are forming a union, of sorts, to protect us from public outcries. (The "party" is over?) I just go on about my business, tune it all out, don't let it bother me, and all is well. My high school treats me very well. They like me, and they are very nice to work with.

[Koreans are major groupthinkers, in case anyone doesn't know. "Homogeneous" and proud of it. Oh, and BEST at absolutely everything. The Borg: resistance is futile? Still, I can't complain. Korea has been good to me, and my experience has been good. They're just very hot-headed and overreact very easily, to almost everything.]

I, however, was processing my new visa at a time I had to comply with all of the above. (I passed everything, but it was a real circus getting it all done, fairly expensive, and a major headache.)

I had two notarized copies of my criminal record check (from Canada, 2009), including "vulnerable sector" screening, made. I still have those. I also have my medical check-up, with drug testing and HIV (negative) results. The world is changing, indeed. I think we'll see more of this rather than less.

Will make sure I get an entry stamp at Customs, and report back to "the boards". Things are changing here (Korea) quickly, and all the time now, too.

The nuggets of valuable information continue to pour in. I thank you, not only for myself, but others who can read these posts. A treasure trove of entry, visa, living and work information.

By the way, my name is Ted. It's funny seeing Knight all the time. Guess I forgot that part.

Cheers,

Ted

[MsDooLittle]

Just throwing in a shout for often forgotten Slovakia here... (though I realise the discussion has drifted to immigration issues)...

Its a fantastic location for exploring Central & Eastern Europe... for art and culture Vienna is one hour from the capital Bratislava, Budapest just two hours on the train, Prague is not much further. Beautiful countryside, nice people, polite and respectful, motivated students and so close to the Alps if you need mountains. Italy is only five hours by car, Slovenia likewise.

I started my teaching career in Prague but came to Slovakia when I grew tired of the tourists and teachers. Its a much more interesting place to live (in my opinion.)

[Knight]

Thanks MsDooLittle.

Noted. I know what you are saying. As I am planning to just show up, I could be surprised where I end up. It'll most likely end up being by what vibes I feel. I do plan to include a bit vacation time in the mix.

If one were coming to Asia, there are pros and cons for each country, and you may not get that from reading classified ads.

I'm not in the habit of hanging with a lot of teachers (they tend to complain a lot, and I grow tired of it), but I'm not anti-social either People are generally nice if you take the time to get to know them.

I know about toursists because I grew up in Niagara Falls, Canada. We're flooded with them, up to our eyeballs.

It doesn't seem real that I'm going/coming, but I need a change from Seoul. Europe appealed, so I didn't question it. I'm a big believer in following gut instincts. (That's the yogi in me.) Still I'm going to miss Asia A LOT!!!!!! And I think salaries are quite low there. That will take some adjustment. My lifestyle is fairly basic.

And, I'm interested in anything people have to say. I have visited Western Europe in the past, but I've never worked and lived in Europe, so it's all news to me.

Feel free to keep the conversation going. (I'm sure other "hopefuls" will read it too.)

[Knight]

.

[MsDooLittle]

Funny.... I myself am looking at going in the other direction. Been here in Slovakia for seven years now and the wanderlust is burning... that said, I have such a good life here I'm not sure I'll ever get round to leaving. Where in the world could I replicate the life/work I have here?! So I admire your initiative. Go for it!

[Knight]

Funny, as the time to leave gets nearer, Korea is looking better all the time, but... There's no way I'd live here forever, and there are other experiences to be had, and... (am I getting too cozy, and hence lethargic or complacent?) I have a good high school job, and about 4 months of paid vacation (in total). I spend my winter vacations in SE Asia, every year. I go to Canada in the summers. Etc., etc. But my juices aren't flowing like they used to. I don't find Seoul an inspiring place to live. The magic part wore off a long time ago. It's probably a dilemma many ESL teachers face from time to time.

I know I need a shake up in my routine. I know deep down my time here is up (for now at least), and many days I'm not all that jazzed about living here. I want to re-light the fire in me. If I did want to come back here, my knowledge of the place and my lengthy resume will get me right back in. It is one of the best places to actually make money. Salaries good (in comparison with other places) and costs are still reasonable (but going up faster these days).

If you have questions about Korea, or Asia, feel free to ask. Korea is not everyone's cup of tea, but you can make a cozy and interesting life here. The Koreans are highly emotional, noisy, known for their heated outbursts, their collective thinking (groupthink), and a mild fear of foreign things, but they also have big hearts, and a salt-of-the-earth quality which I admire. It's often chaotic and disorganized here, but that seems to be the way they like it. Who am I to argue?

Asia is the kind of place that keeps unfolding itself to you. The new things to discover are never-ending. The travel is great and most interesting. I can see myself retiring somewhere in SE Asia. Maybe teaching yoga and a bit of English on the side. I did spend 5 years studying raja yoga here (with a Dutch teacher), and have my international teaching license. North America (Canada) is home, but it also bores me. Too materialistic and insular, and too arrogant. Still, it's home and where my roots and family are.

I think all of us, who have been away for some time, have simliar experiences, ideas, and questions, but we keep teaching ESL. We must like it and the lifestyle it affords us. Not necessarily monetarily, but in so many other ways. We're like these free-agents roaming the planet, grooving on this thing and that, and we're very unfettered. And we meet some of the coolest people. Ain't that the truth? I can't imagine life stuck in some cubicle back home. Did that for 2 years and hated every second of it.

My first year in Korea was absolutely thrilling. I adored every second of it. Not every teacher does, but I sure did. You might have the same experience if you decide to dust of your wandering shoes. Asia is fascinating. I'm hoping my sojourn to your part of the world can match even a fraction of that first year. I remember, even after 6 months, getting goosebumps just standing at a bus stop: pinch me, I'm here.

Just for thought. Imagine winter vacation, starting in (the still unspoilt) Luang Prebang, Laos, riding elephants in the jungle, and then bicycles in that heavenly town of monks and temples. Then flying to the ever-funky Siem Reap (Angkor Wat), and after, boating down the Tonle sap to where it meets the Mekong, at Phnom Penh, and then back to Bangkok, and on to the white Thai beaches of the South, boating, snorkelling and chilling in the sun. That's basically my winter vacation each year (with variations of course). It leaves one laughing and wondering what the heck the rest of the world is up to. It certainly can't be as much fun!!!

If you're thinking about change, Asia ia a great place to consider!!! (I also love Japan, but the cost of living is much higher, and you can get there in 90 minutes from Seoul. I go often. Thailand and Cambodia rock, but the salaries are low, yet OK if you stay in the country; few trips abroad possible.)

(I guess it's OK to have these kind of chats here? I'm not sure of Dave's policy, but see no harm.)

[MsDooLittle]

I love what you say... and so much I can say for my own experience here, in Slovakia. Yes, I remember that goosebump feeling of pride and excitement at having escaped the treadmill. The winters here are different - instead of beaches we have mountains. (silly me for forgetting to mention the Mediterranean is only a few hours away, if you like that sort of thing) I've learned to ski, and adore the fact I can be on the Austrian slopes within and hour of Bratislava. Summers offer the charm of swanning around medieval villages in Italy, or Austria, or anywhere in Eastern Europe. Take your pick! I've built up a portfolio of wonderful students of a very high caliber - heads of business and government. They tell me about growing up in Socialism and I've learned to appreciate the value of freedom, and just how privileged I am to be born in the English speaking world.

I share your wanderlust and think that Europe will be a fascinating place for you to re-discover. I yearn to taste a little of the life you describe but doubts about leaving what I have hold me back.

[Arab Strap]