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Women in Saudi....
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chiquitita



Joined: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:19 am    Post subject: Women in Saudi.... Reply with quote

What are the chances for a single woman getting an ESL job in Saudi? I've read that unless you are married it is virtually impossible to land a job there.

Also, what are the minimum requirements for getting ESL work in Saudi, for men or women...BA? MA? Years of experience?

And last of all...where are the best places to look for work?

Thanks!
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12751
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 8:42 am    Post subject: Calling Cleo Reply with quote

This sounds like a job for Cleopatra - who, I believe, is single and worked in the Kingdom.
Regards,
John
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 16066
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Chiquitita,

JohnS is right that Cleo is the woman with the experience. Until she arrives here for a visit, why not look through the 4 pages of messages on this board. This has been discussed a number of times. I just glanced through the archives and on page 2, down near the bottom there is a message entitled 'women in SA.'

One question that comes to my mind is 'why' are you interested in SA? If you are interested in working and living in the Middle East, this is the last place for a single woman. As a single woman who did teach around the Middle East for many years, any other country is a better choice IMHO. Smile

Read about on all the Middle East boards here and the job information section of Dave's. They should answer most of your questions.

VS
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Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

There ARE jobs for single women in KSA - thousands of single women work in hosptials and other places inthe Kingdom. However, as regards EFL, there arent that many opportunities.

There are two main reasons for this:

Firstly, it is illegal for women to teach men and vice versa. As most of the people who need English in KSA (for work, study,etc) are men, this means that the opportunities for women are that much harder to find.

Secondly, teaching is one ofthe very few professions considered suitable for local Saudi women. There is a considerable amount of pressure on schools etc to employ local women, as the unemployment rate among Saudi females is extremely high. This further reduces your chances of finding teaching work in the Kingdom.

However, it can be done, as I myself am living proof! As for qualifications, the same applies to men and women. Mostthird level places will certainly want a BA and a good few years' experience, and probably an MA as well. Private schools and companies may be less stringent, but probably not such good employers either.

Life for a single woman in KSA is not eveyone's idea of Paradise (in fact,Idoubt it''s anyone's idea of Paradise!). Unless you manage to establish good contacts early on, you may well find yourslef limited to your apartment building and your school. It is very hard to be independent and live your own life in KSA, as the country simply has no concept of the single woman. On the plus side, however, as well as making a good salary, you will have an easy and comfortable life, and, believe me, teaching Saudi women is an experience you will never forget!
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12305
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 2:00 pm    Post subject: difficult Reply with quote

I really think that KSA is VERY dificult for women and for a woman on her own --------------------------

Try the UAE. Really !
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Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, Scot, it's not ALL that bad! Really!

As you have yourself said so many times, a LOT depends on your job and situation. With the wrong job, life can be a misery, with the right job, it can be quite OK - provided you can live with the restrictions, of course.

Actually, while there's no doubt that life in KSA is more challenging for women than for men, sometimes I think that the real divide among ex-pats is the "married vs singles" thing. Singles of either sex (but esp. women) can have a hard time of it unless they are really prepared to hustle for a social life - and maybe not even then. However, married couples, esp. those with kids, generally seem quite happy in KSA, at least for a short time.

All in all, though, it looks like the famed golden age (!?!) of the Saudi ex-pat is long gone...
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12751
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 3:48 pm    Post subject: Depends Reply with quote

Dear Cleopatra,
I agree - a LOT does depend on the job situation. The other VERY important factor is the person herself. And I don't think that differs much, if any, between genders. If the individual is self-reliant, has considerable "inner resounces", is quite adaptable, patient and tolerant and NOT too dependent on "outside diversions", then she/he has a much better chance of, at a minimum, tolerating the Kingdom, and, perhaps even enjoying her/his time there - as, I think, you did. It's this factor that makes answering the question:
"Will I like it there"
so impossible to answer.
Regards,
John
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12305
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 3:58 pm    Post subject: females in the KofSA Reply with quote

The exile from the Magic Kingdom, johnslat, has hit the nail on the head again.

This place is not easy, but humans can adapt - or some of them can.

If you are inflexible and think your way is the only right way, if you need endless diversions laid on for you, if you need constant access to liquor, maybe KSA is not for you.
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Mark100



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 441

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't recommend any single women coming to Saudi.
Having said that there are lots of single women in Aramco but Aramco is not like the rest of Saudi.
The biggest complaint from the women here is the amount of money that they have to spend on taxis!
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Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those women who complain about hav ing to spend lots of money on taxis are usually those women who won't walk to the supermarket down the road for fear of ... not too sure, really!

Personally, I put on my headscarf, ignored the kurb crawlers and walked a lot of the time. Of course, there will be many situations when women (and men)do need taxis but it shouldn't be a major expense if you plan properly. Also, many men choose not to drive in KSA, for reasons which should be obvious.

The above posters are right: the ability to adapt to KSA is very much down to the individual concerned. As John said, if you are slef-reliant and don't need formal "diversions" you will survive and, who knows, maybe even thrive!

Most of the single women I knew who were happy and planning to spend more than a year or two in the Kingdom were not really single - they had a boyfriend tucked away in some compound or other. But I must also say that genuinely single men (ie those who didn't have a girlfriend) were also often quite unhappy in KSA. So, as I said before, it's not only a question of gender.

Would I recommend it? As John implied, that truly is the million rial question!
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Cleopatra



Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago

PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting that the OP hasn't followed up on her enquiry.

I didn't think we were THAT discouraging...
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12751
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:28 am    Post subject: She's driving me crazy Reply with quote

Hmm, a straw in the wind, perhaps? Prominent Saudi Islamic scholar says there's no prohibition in Islam against women driving:

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=37834&d=11&m=1&y=2004

I'll bet there'll be women driving (legally) in the Kingdom within the next 3 years - any takers?
Regards,
John
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james



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, you could very well be right about women driving in the Kingdom within 3 years, perhaps in Jeddah, Dammam-Khobar and Riyadh. I don't think, however, that you'll see women driving in the Qasim-Hail area in 3 years or 30 years for that matter!
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12305
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:00 pm    Post subject: Shock Horror ! Reply with quote

I was SHOCKED when I moved to Eastern Province and saw Saudi Women Drivers ! Admittedly only within Aramco and parts of KFUPM, but................................

Where will this end ? Mixed bathing ? Votes ? Co-education ?
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Mark100



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 441

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2004 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look, let's get this straight Saudi is the pits regardless of gender.
Take away the good salary and no one would go near the place.
Enough said.
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