Job Discussion Forums

[standingbymorning]

Hello from the other side of the world!

Just had a few questions for experienced English teachers in France. I have taught English to children and adults here in Japan for two years and I am thinking about maybe going over to France to give it a try. Just curious if anyone can give me some advice on where I should look (websites links on this website) for jobs in France.

And (if possible) if anyone has experience with the switch from one country to another for teaching English if they could give me some pointers and anything to be aware of making the switch that'd be great.

Thanks!

[spiral78]

Where you are from will be relevant. If you're from the UK, you won't have legal problems getting work permits, of course. If you're from North America, Australia, or NZ, your legal prospects are very, very limited.

European jobs are not generally found from abroad, unlike Asia. You ask for websites - the reason you haven't found them easily is that European employers generally wont' give you the first consideration until they see you standing in their offices, CV in hand, looking professional and responsible. If you want to give it a go in France, you'll need to plan to come on over (at your own expense, obviously).

Another consideration would be that European students may expect very different teaching/learning styles from your Japanese experience. You would likely need some orientation into teaching in this different context. Your experience may not translate effectively here (for example, at the university where I work in the Netherlands, we screen job candidates with experience in Asia carefully for attitudes towards learner-centred/teacher-centred approaches, among other things).

You do not mention whether you have specific training in teaching English. European newbies nearly all have certification from an on-site provider, including supervised teaching practice. CELTA is the brand name, but there are generic courses out there that meet the standard. If you have anything less, your CV will not stand out well among the competition.

Finally, pay in Europe for teachers with basic quals and experience is subsistence level. You would expect to pay some start up costs, and then (hopefully) to make enough to get by...but saving or paying off any outside debt is extremely difficult. I mention this because I think that pay in Asia for newbie level teachers is generally better than here. This ties in to my earlier note about coming over at your own expense - things like housing and airfare are not considered the responsibility of the employer, here.

[standingbymorning]

Well, I am American so that is troubling to hear.

Would I need to attain such a visa to support me before I enter the country or do I have the time and means to get such a visa while in the country?

I have been trained at several schools here. The biggest name I can mention is NOVA the other schools I've trained and worked at are quite smaller than that.

Well, for this past year my focus has been exclusively on teaching children. (Use of big gestures, songs, dance, games, etc.) Most of them age 2-10. Even within this country there are quite a few different styles that each school demands. But they all want a energy filled person with a loud happy voice. I can't imagine children anywhere in the world who don't need that in their classroom. Of course, if the school asks me to change styles, I am quite willing to learn those styles.

I am happy to report my debts are cleared for back home so that isn't too much of a concern. But of course it would be nice flying all the way to France to know there is a job there for me. I'd put my mind further at ease.

Anyway, thank you for your help so far! If I can keep you for a little longer for some more questions that would be great.

[spiral78]

Unless you go to France on a program from a university in the States, your chances of landing legal employment are nearly nil.

The problem is that EU member countries more or less are restricted to hiring English teachers from the EU - meaning UK citizens. I say more or less because the exact laws vary from country to country. US citizens can still get legal work permits for the 'new' EU member states, such as Poland and the Czech Rep. The 'old' EU countries, such as France, Italy, and Spain - well, your prospects are very, very bleak, short of marrying someone from the country.

Working illegally used to be common, but laws have tightened considerably and chances of being caught and deported are now quite high.

I will see where the latest thread in the France forum regarding non-EU member teachers is, and bump it up.

There is a poster who runs a teacher training centre in Prague who insists that two American grads of his program are now working legally in France, but he has not been able to say how they were able to do this.

Ultimately, your best source of current information may well be the French Embassy website - if you google the Embassy in Washington, DC, you should find useful information for US citizens in English.

As for teaching and training - well, you might land a job teaching small children in Europe...but more of the work is with businesspeople. They'll obviously expect something different in terms of approach and method - and more in-depth knowledge of the language and its elements.

You have apparently been trained specifically for the Asian teaching context. I think to transfer to Europe, you'll need to plan to take one of the 30-day courses, if you want to compete successfully on the job market.

Ultimately, I suggest that you will probably have more success if you focus on a country where you are eligible for work permits (Poland, Slovakia, the Czech Rep) and take a training course there. The timing is critical - typical contracts are Sept.Oct - June, and there is very little work around in July and August. If you take a course during those two months,then you are in a good position to apply for jobs and land a contract quickly.

Be aware that, as a US citizen, you have only 90 days in the Schengen zone (which now comprises most of Western and Central Europe - google the exact countries if you want to). Then, you have to be OUT FOR 90 DAYS before returning. That's not country-by-country, but for the whole zone. Therefore, if you're coming here, you need to consider timing carefully, so that you have time to take a course, get a job contract, and file for legal papers within the 90 day time limit. Once you've filed an application for legal papers, you are unlikey to be deported, even before they have been approved.

HOWEVER, the above scenario won't be likely in France, where you will not be likely to find an employer to sponsor your visa. They've got enough legal UK teachers around not to need to jump through the legal hoops for a North American....

[standingbymorning]

Okay, my question was answered.

Thanks! This topic can be locked up now.

[naturegirl321]

France offers assitant teaching positions for Americans aged 20 to 29.
http://www.frenchculture.org/spip.php?rubrique424&tout=ok

[Luder]

[spiral78]

What are you talking about?

Non-EU citizens, who have overstayed 90 days in the zone, and who are passing through any airport inside the zone, are legit targets for penalties. Bummer. But true, as of Jan 2009.

[Luder]

[spiral78]

If you're working illegally in France as an English teacher, life will be hard and you'll have plenty of things to worry about, but deportation won't be one of them. In fact, your chances of being picked up and deported are so remote as to be practically nil. Why you stand by your remark that these chances are, as you say, Spiral, "quite high" is simply beyond me

Once more - I agree that one's chances of being picked up and deported are nearly nil, barring some really bad luck.

The 'caught and deported' comment came at a moment when that actually happened (randomly) in the Czech Rep. I'll find and attach the link to the news articles.

But your chances of getting caught at any airport are, as of January 2009, quite high. They ARE asking on many occasions.

Sorry, but on this my personal experience is different from yours - and just as legitimate.

[spiral78]

http://www.praguepost.com/news/989-visa-laws-plague-teachers.html

No, not in France. Though it's legally possible.

C'mon. Don't encourage people to take the chance - unless they are aware that there ARE legitimate risks.

If you go on an illegal basis, that's absolutely OK. It's been common practice in some countries for a long time. But 1) things did get more difficult in Jan 2009. and 2) it's not fair for posters to imply that the risks don't exist.

[Glenlivet]

[spiral78]

If someone isn't entitled to come here and work (hence preserving jobs for those of us who are entitled) why not point out the potential penalties?

Hmm. Glenlivet, you've made me think...

why am I so cautious in suggesting that it's a BAD IDEA to go live and teach illegally somewhere?

Why should I or anyone else posting in this way take any flak at all?

I totally realize that it used to be a pretty common option in some European countries (in terms of statistics, particularly in Spain).

But times have seriously changed -

and in truth, anyone sugar-coating the fact that living and working illegally is both unethical and risky is giving people false ideas, at a juncture when realistic planning is quite important.

[Raindrops]

You need a CELTA or TESOL to teach in France.

[standingbymorning]

Thanks to everyone for their input. My questions have been answered. If a moderator is reading this, please lock up this discussion.